Continue discussion from there:
http://famicomworld.proboards58.com/index.cgi?board=famicom&action=display&thread=1134514887
to here.
I own this, very interesting little item. You can even make games with it! I'm going to one day sit down and figure it out...
Cool! I have it too, plus I have the cassette recorder. I also just recently got my hands on a MIB (the game cart is still wrapped in plasic and the manual hasn't even been cracked open!) Family Basic V.3 software pak. I heard theres three games programmed into it but I don't think I'll be busting the plastic on it anytime soon!
-chop
OOOO, take pictures pronto! That version is rare, I never see it on eBay!
Yeah! V.3 is pretty rare and really expensive even in Japan....
Quote from: featherpluckinfilm on August 31, 2006, 08:02:41 am
Yeah! V.3 is pretty rare and really expensive even in Japan....
I know, I rarely even see pictures of it! I'm hoping to find one one day though...
Yeah I got really lucky with that. The guy who sold it didn't put the word "famicom" in his auction so I'm sure tons of people missed it! I just happened to search for it and it came up. Got it for $30. I'm planning on taking a bunch of shots of some of my stuff soon so I'll link em as soon as I get done with that.
Also, awesome to see featherplukin postin' here! What's up man! Your auctions are a breath of fresh air in the famicom community! Keep it up! I just won one of your famicom books that I'm DYING to check out!
Hahahaha, that's just AWESOME! Lucky S.O.B., lol. :P
Unlike most kids of the 80s, I didn't have a Nintendo Entertianment System. What I grew up with was the Commodore 64. The Commodore's loading process was something I learned and profected at an early age. From my teens, I became much more focused on the NES I never had and in the last five years my intrist has grown to emcompass the Famicom as well. Something that I've heard a lot about is The Family BASIC keyboard. I'm thinking of buying one. Does anyone have any experience using it? Also, is it absolutely nessesary to also have the Famicom Data Recorder as well? I've been looking up ebay to no avail on that. I've been studying Japanese for about two years now and can read most japanese outside of kanji. I want to test my skills with the Famicom BASIC. Just wanted to get some insight regarding that. Thanks.
I've used it briefly, it's quite confusing if you don't know Japanese or BASIC, and the Date Recorder can be used to save the game or music or such, so yes it's pretty important.
BASIC is pretty simple to learn, so I think if you know basic the japanese shouldn't be too intimidating, the actual programming is in roman characters i assume
I emailed featherpluckinfilms, and in part this is what he had to say:
"Apparently, you could use a generic brand one[tape recorder] as well. I think they may have made the same thing to use with computers around that time, so that may be a cheaper alternative."
Can anyone confirm/deny this? I want to get into the Famicom BASIC, but I also want to be able to actually save my creations.
I don't know what the Famicom basic's output jack is like, but the computer tape recorders were no different than a regular recorder, just with the proper input. It should be a 1/8" plug, just make sure the recorder you buy supports inputs other than a built in mic.
Quote from: satoshi_matrix on April 22, 2007, 02:36:27 pm
I emailed featherpluckinfilms, and in part this is what he had to say:
"Apparently, you could use a generic brand one[tape recorder] as well. I think they may have made the same thing to use with computers around that time, so that may be a cheaper alternative."
Can anyone confirm/deny this? I want to get into the Famicom BASIC, but I also want to be able to actually save my creations.
I am wondering, if one plays a famicom basic tape in a tape deck, is there any audio coming out of the speakers? If there is, then it should work if the casstte player has the right audio plugin.
CFB, yea, there's sound. Back in the day when I had my C64 I used a standard tape deck. Saving stuff to tape is such a pain, as there's no random access obviously. If you saved something that's at the end of the tape, you still have the play the whole stinking side back until it gets to what it's looking for.
funny, I had the same problem with my Atari 400 and tape. It took so dang long to load up programs. So if there is sound, then you should be able to use any cassette deck with inputs and the appropriate cable.
Tape was so crappy, luckily I didn't use it for long. Kids these days don't know how easy they've got it with their 200 gig drives and USB drives :)
ha ha ha.
Okay guys - today I got my CIB Famicom BASIC! I paid around $130 for it, which I actually don't mind. Next big thing is well, to learn BASIC. Does anyone know of any online tutorials that are benifical for the purposes of programming for the Famicom BASIC? I've found plenty for modern windows QuickBasic, but that doesn't help much here. Anyone else have one of these and know of a good source for information? I'm going to go going to the library in a few days to get some books on the subject, but I'm hoping there is also something online for me to read up on. Thanks.
There are a few products which use the basic name. Quick Basic, Visual Basic, and well, Basic.
The original Basic is no longer used anymore, generally speaking, and is shunned away and replaced by better programming languages such as C++, Visual Basic, PERL, etc.
Back in the 80's however, basic was a widely used programming language. It should be possible to find books on basic at your local library, though they may be old. I am going to assume that famicom basic is verrrrrry similar to standard basic and will not need a seperate set of instructions, but if it does, you can check the manual and attempt to translate it.
Yup, I'm going to buy a book published in 1987 from my library due to its age. I'm hoping there isn't anything different about computer basic at the time and the Famicom Basic.
Still, does anyone have knowledge of a good online tutorial for teriditional BASIC?
Also, would you guys be able to translate sections if I were to post high res scans/photos here? I can read Japanese, but as for TRANSLATING Japanese........
Quote from: satoshi_matrix on May 07, 2007, 08:57:16 pm
Yup, I'm going to buy a book published in 1987 from my library due to its age. I'm hoping there isn't anything different about computer basic at the time and the Famicom Basic.
Still, does anyone have knowledge of a good online tutorial for teriditional BASIC?
Also, would you guys be able to translate sections if I were to post high res scans/photos here? I can read Japanese, but as for TRANSLATING Japanese........
they are hundred of books online, pdfs and txts about BASIC language in english. You must googling good.
See that's the thing though. There are so many, I dont want to read up on something that doesn't pretain to the Famicom BASIC. At least according to what I've learned from my friends and Wikipedia, modern PC BASIC is different from the BASIC used here. That's why I'm hoping someone could point me to a particular online source of informatrion that'll help me get started using the Famicom Basic and not PC Basic.
BING!:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Famicom-Illustrated-Guide-Book-3-Nintendo-Japan-nes_W0QQitemZ280111579115QQihZ018QQcategoryZ4315QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem
ZING!:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Family-BASIC-Comic-Guide-Book-Famicom-Japan-nes_W0QQitemZ280112143579QQihZ018QQcategoryZ4315QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem
GONG!:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Famicom-Illustrated-Guide-Book-7-Nintendo-Japan-nes_W0QQitemZ280111579456QQihZ018QQcategoryZ4315QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem
:D
great stuff, but I'm hoping for something I can find online that won't cost me more money. I'm kinda broke atm
books are prolly the best bet.
A buddy of mine gave me an old book for Microsoft Visual BASIC. Would that be any help at all?
as i said earlier in this thread, visual basic, quick basic, and basic are entirely different things. no
damn...hm I guess I need to find a guide to BASIC on ebay or something.
I was without internet for a while, so I messed with the Famicom Basic roms for a bit. I might be able to help you out a little.
What do you see when you start it up? Does it give some kind of weird computer graphics, or just a black screen with white text?
Navigating The interface of the Famicom Basic is fairly easy, espically if you can read katakana. When turned on, a cheesy futuristic Computer sceen shows flashing colours and making beeps and bloops. It'll do this for about 30 seconds, or hit F1 to skip it.
It asks for your name. Type it in English.
Next, it asks you what program you want to start. By defult, it will ask you to run GAME BASIC. Hit F1 for Yes, F2 For No, F3 to go back and F4 for help (I think)
If you select no, it'll ask to start the Calculator program. Hit F1 for yes, F2 for no.
Again, it'll ask to start the Muisc Program. Hit F1 for yes, F2 for no.
Then it will ask if you want to start the Message Board program. F1 for yes, F2 for no. If you hit no, it'll loop back to GAME BASIC.
That's all I've learned thus far, I need to fiddle with it some more.
OK, that's version 2 or 2.1 (assuming my roms were audited correctly...). Version 3 is missing the funny computer interface, but comes with some sample games (and possibly has a more robust version of basic).
The version of basic used is called NS-HUBASIC (Nintendo/Sharp HudsonBASIC). If you google that, you might be able to dig up some free reference material (though most likely in Japanese).
Here's a list of all the commands you can use, which I found listed in the rom:
GOTO DIM KEY - POS
GOSUB REM COLOR MOD CSRLIN
RUN STOP DEF / CHR$
RETURN CONT CGEN * HEX$
RESTORE CLS SWAP ABS INKEY$
THEN CLEAR CALL ASC RIGHT$
LIST ON LOCATE STR$ LEFT$
SYSTEM OFF PALET FRE SCR$
TO CUT ERA LEN
STEP NEW XOR PEEK
SPRITE POKE OR ND
PRINT CGSET AND GN
FOR VIEW NOT PC
NEXT MOVE <> TAB
PAUSE END >= MID$
INPUT PLAY <= STICK
LINPUT BEEP = STRIG
DATA LOAD > XPOS
IF SAVE < YPOS
READ POSITION+ VAL
I'm working on dumping the code for the sample games. Nearly there, just the katakana bits that php is choking on :P.
I'd love to find V3 of the Famicom Basic, but nobody sells it!
Oh wow. Thanks so much for that! Anythign you can tell me further would be a giant help! That list has lots of detailed info! Can you read kanji? I would love for someone with a more robust knowledge of Japanese to be able to translate the manual. I can scan pages if you or anyone else can translate!
Ok, I've got one of the game scripts dumped. It looks like it matches the console's output (that's the LIST command, btw), so you can give it a try if you want. At the very least, it'll give you an idea of what the syntax looks like:
10 '"AREA 88 V7.3"
20 T=O=U=C=H=D=I=K=L=M=N=P=S=V=X=Y=MA=X0=X1=Y0=Y1=PP=Q
30 DIM D(1),V(1),F(8),SC(1),S(1)
40 L=9:MA=2:N=3:V=7:C=7:S(0)=4:S(1)=4
50 X0=70:Y0=80:X1=110:Y1=60
60 D(0)=3:V(0)=2:D(1)=7:V(1)=2:F(0)=3:F(1)=3:MA=MA+1:U=N:M=1
70 SPRITE ON:CGSET 1,1:PLAY"T1Y2M1V9O3R1":PALETS 1,13,48,38,18
80 FOR I=15 TO 18:A$=A$+SCR$(I,22):NEXT:H=VAL(A$)
90 GOSUB 1070
100 VIEW:FORP=0TO200:LOCATERND(27),RND(23):PRINTCHR$(205);:NEXT:P=0
110 '
120 I=P+6:IF F(P) THEN ON F(P) GOSUB 670,700,680:GOTO 150
130 IF M=P THEN GOSUB 390:GOTO 150
140 GOSUB 210
150 IF MOVE(I)=0 THEN ERA I
160 GOSUB 530
170 GOSUB 800
180 ON F(8)+1 GOSUB 940,1040
190 P=1-P:GOTO 120
200 '
210 S=STICK(P):T=STRIG(P)
220 IF T<>4 THEN F(I)=1
230 IF S+T=0 THEN RETURN
240 IFS=0THEN350
250 S=-1*(S=8)-3*(S=1)-5*(S=4)-7*(S=2)-2*(S=9)-4*(S=5)-6*(S=6)-8*(S=10)
260 Q=D(P)
270 IF S=Q THEN 350
280 IF Q>4 THEN 310
290 IF (S>Q AND S<=Q+4) THEN 320
300 GOTO 330
310 IF (S>=Q-4 AND S<Q)THEN 330
320 Q=Q+1:GOTO 340
330 Q=Q-1
340 PP=-1*(Q>8)-8*(Q<1):Q=-Q*(PP=0)+PP:D(P)=Q
350 IF T AND4 THEN IF F(I) THEN V(P)=V-V(P):F(I)=0
360 DEF MOVE(P)=SPRITE (P+8,D(P),V(P),255,1):MOVE P
370 IF T>7 THEN DEF MOVE(I)=SPRITE(12,D(P),1,80,0,P):POSITION I,(XPOS(P)+4)MOD256,(YPOS(P)+4)MOD256:MOVE I
380 RETURN
390 '
400 K=K-1:IF K>0 THEN RETURN
410 T=0:D=0:X=(XPOS(1-P)-XPOS(P))/13:Y=(YPOS(1-P)-YPOS(P))/13
420 IF X>0 THEN D=3
430 IF X<0 THEN D=7
440 IF Y>0 THEN D=D+5
450 IF Y<0 THEN D=D+1:IF X<0 THEN D=16
460 IF X AND Y THEN D=D/2
470 S=2:O=D-D(P):IF(0<O AND O<5)OR O<-3 THEN S=1
480 IF O=0 THEN S=0
490 IF V(1-P)<>V(P) THEN T=4
500 IF MOVE(I)=0 OR RND(10)=0 THEN T=T+8
510 IF X*X+Y*Y>200 THEN RETURN
520 K=RND(L):GOTO 220
530 '
540 D=CRASH(0):IF D>0 AND D<6 THEN O=0:GOSUB 590
550 D=CRASH(1):IF D>1 AND D<6 THEN O=1:GOSUB 590
560 D=CRASH(6):IF D>0 AND D<6 THEN O=6:GOSUB 610
570 D=CRASH(7):IF D=0 OR (D>1 AND D<6)THEN O=7:GOSUB 610
580 RETURN
590 X=ABS(XPOS(O)-XPOS(D)):Y=ABS(YPOS(O)-YPOS(D)):IF X<10 AND Y<10 THEN IF MOVE(O) AND MOVE(D) AND F(D)=0 AND F(O)=0 THEN F(O)=1:F(D)=1:IF D>1 THEN 650
600 RETURN
610 X=ABS(XPOS(O)-XPOS(D)-4):Y=ABS(YPOS(O)-YPOS(D)-4):IF X<8 AND Y<8 THEN IF MOVE(O) AND MOVE(D) AND F(D)=0 THEN ERA O:F(D)=1:GOTO 630
620 RETURN
630 IF D<2 THEN SC(O-6)=SC(O-6)+10:RETURN
640 SC(O-6)=SC(O-6)+1+F(8)*4
650 DEF MOVE(D)=SPRITE(10,RND(9),RND(3)+4,10):MOVE D:PLAY"O4C":RETURN
660 '
670 F(P)=2:DEF MOVE(P)=SPRITE(10,D(P),V(P),70/V(P),0):MOVE P:PLAY"O"+HEX$(P+3)+"GG":S(P)=S(P)-1:RETURN
680 IF P=M OR STRIG(P)+STICK(P) THEN F(P)=0:POSITION P,X0+P*X1,Y0+P*Y1
690 RETURN
700 IF MOVE(P) THEN RETURN
710 F(P)=3:ERA P
720 IF SC(0)>H AND M<>0 THEN H=SC(0)
730 IF SC(1)>H AND M<>1 THEN H=SC(1)
740 IF L<1 THEN L=5
750 LOCATE 0,20:PRINT"SCORE ",SC(0),SC(1),"LEVEL":PRINT"SHIPS",S(0),S(1),L;" ":PRINT"HI-SCORE",H,
760 IF S(P)>0 THEN RETURN
770 IF M=P THEN L=L-1:S(P)=4:GOTO 740
780 IF M=-1 THEN M=P:PRINT P;" COM":PLAY"EE":RETURN
790 LOCATE 10,10:PRINT "GAME OVER":PLAY"O1C5CDED6C4C5":PAUSE 200:RUN
800 '
810 X=XPOS(P)/8-1:Y=YPOS(P)/8-2
820 IF X<0 OR X>27 OR Y<0 OR Y>23 THEN 880
830 IF SCR$(X,Y)<>""THEN 880
840 S=ASC(SCR$(X,Y,1))
850 IF S=P+1 THEN 880
860 IF F(P)=0 THEN F(P)=1
870 '
880 IF MOVE(I)=0 THEN RETURN
890 X=(XPOS(I)-12)/8:Y=(YPOS(I)-20)/8
900 IF X<0 OR X>27 OR Y<0 OR Y>23 THEN RETURN
910 IF SCR$(X,Y)<>"" THEN RETURN
920 S=ASC(SCR$(X,Y,1)):IF S=P+1 THEN RETURN
930 ERA I:LOCATE X,Y:PRINT " ";:RETURN
940 '
950 FOR I=2 TO MA:IF MOVE(I)OR F(I)=2 THEN 980
960 IF F(I)=1 THEN GOSUB 990:GOTO 980
970 DEF MOVE(I)=SPRITE (C,RND(9),RND(3)+C/2,80,0):MOVE I
980 NEXT:RETURN
990 '
1000 F(I)=0:ERA I:POSITION I,120,120:IF U<MA THEN F(I)=2
1010 U=U-1:IF U=0 THEN F(2)=0:F(8)=1:RETURN
1020 IF U<0 THEN U=N:F(2)=0:F(3)=0:F(4)=0:F(5)=0:F(8)=0:C=C-2:L=L-1:IF C<2 THEN C=7:IF M>-1 THEN S(1-M)=S(1-M)+1
1030 RETURN
1040 IF F(2) THEN I=2:GOTO990
1050 IF MOVE(2)=0 THEN DEF MOVE(2)=SPRITE(2,RND(8)+1,RND(3)+1,10,0):MOVE 2
1060 RETURN
1070 '
1080 VIEW:RESTORE 1070
1090 FORP=0TO200:LOCATERND(27),RND(23):PRINTCHR$(205):NEXT
1100 LOCATE8,3:PRINT"STAR KILLER"
1110 FOR P=0 TO 1:LOCATE 10,10+P*8:DEF MOVE(P)=SPRITE(P+8,D(P),2,30):POSITION P,X0+P*X1,Y0+P*Y1:MOVE P
1120 IF MOVE(P) THEN 1120
1130 READ A$:FOR I=1 TO LEN(A$):PRINT MID$(A$,I,1);:PLAY"C":NEXT:NEXT
1140 FOR P=2 TO 3:LOCATE 10,17+P:READ A$:FOR I=1 TO LEN(A$):PRINT MID$(A$,I,1);:PLAY"C":NEXT:NEXT:LOCATE1,22:PRINT"フタリ デ アソビマスカ(Y/N)";:M=-1
1150 A$=INKEY$(0):IFA$="N"THENM=1
1160 PAUSE80:RETURN
1170 DATA "PLAYER 1","PLAYER 2"," OR","COMPUTER"
Note that on lines 830 and 910, there is a blue dot being used in the comparisons. I'm not entirely sure what that's supposed to be or, worse, how you go about inputting it with the keyboard.
(http://xs315.xs.to/xs315/07196/bluedots.png.xs.jpg) (http://xs.to/xs.php?h=xs315&d=07196&f=bluedots.png)
Also, in case you didn't figure it out yet, the backspace key is the break key. I don't know how familiar you are with basic, but the break key becomes your best friend very quickly ;D. Basically, it halts execution of your code. So, if you mess up and your game or whatever totally messes up, you can hit Backspace to go back to a console.
It's getting late here, so I have to call it quits. I'll dump the other games sometime this weekend (or monday).
QuoteI'd love to find V3 of the Famicom Basic, but nobody sells it!
Got it! Brand new unopened in box! Got a lucky break on ebay, the dude selling it didnt even put "famicom" into the listing. so i got it for SUPER cheap :D
Awesome work! Um.....what does all that code tell me? lol sorry, I have no idea what any of it means/the value of knowing it! :(
Sad thing is, I dont know any BASIC. I'm looking for some sort of guide to teach me it. Do you know any guides online? I've looked up NS-HUBASIC, and yeah all the sites are general info sites in Japanese, and all the regular BASIC guides I can find through google turn out to be Visual Basic which doesn't apply here.
Also: could someone translate the manual if I were to post scanns?
Haha, I guess it was a bit overkill ;D
The best site I could find (by searching for ファミリーベーシック) was here:
http://page.freett.com/familybasic/index.html
It's in Japanese, of course, but it actually explains the commands and gives a few (short) sample programs for you to try. All you have to do is type in the source code (this includes the line numbers!) and then type RUN. For example:
10 PRINT "HELLO"
20 GOTO 10
RUN
That will type HELLO over and over again until you hit backspace. You can type CLS to clean up the mess afterwards. If you want to see your code, type LIST and it will scroll it at you. If you need to edit a line, just type it again. For example, after typing/running/breaking the above code, you could then type
10 PRINT "GOODBYE"
Typing LIST will now show you that you've overwritten line 10. I'm not sure if there's a way to LIST only a particular line of code, but it looks like you can (using LIST 10 or LIST 10 20, something like that).
I'm finding this to be quite interesting, so I'll write up some more later. I can't translate the manual for it, but I'd like to see it :D
Thanks for the info! You're a godsend! Do you know of a site where I could learn Basic UJ?
Hrmm...not really. I learned what I know from QBasic and its help file (and a bit from my brother). The syntax is pretty much the same (although that's probably true of all old flavors of basic).
I'll try and write up a really short tutorial later (basically just me taking notes while I play around with some source code). That might take a few days, though.
I just won two books on ebay: Basic BASIC and Advanced BASIC. According to the seller, apparently they are two of the best published books on BASIC from the 80s. Dunno if he was just trying to sell it to me though. I'll have to see when the books arrive.
One thing I really want to know: How do I switch back and forth between Katakana and English? I seem to do be able to switch, but once I'm in Japanese I have no idea how to get back.
Hmm...I'm only using an emulator. I have the Kana key (the one between right-shift and return) mapped to Ins. I press it once, I'm in kana mode. I press it again, I'm out of kana mode. It also looks like you can hit Ctrl+V to get into Kana mode, and press Ctrl+W to get back to Alphanumeric mode.
If possible, could you send me the Famicom BASIC rom as well as info on whatever emulator is nessesary to run it? Do you just use a standard modern keyboard? how did you get that support? There must be a plugin I would assume. email me at satoshimatrix@hotmail.com. Using the computer emulator could be helpful to switch back and forth between it and the internet for info. If you have 2.1 as well as 3.0 I'd like both, but whatever you got is fine. Thanks!
Got your email. Thank you very much! :)
I'll get on scanning the manual for the Famicom Basic. If not a translation, maybe you could tell me a bit about each page? Some of it is written in BASIC, which I currently can't understand but you should be able to.
Quote from: vealchop on May 08, 2007, 11:49:14 amZING!:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Family-BASIC-Comic-Guide-Book-Famicom-Japan-nes_W0QQitemZ280112143579QQihZ018QQcategoryZ4315QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem
I've got this one, and another one that looks quite much like this one. But they're both complete with tapes for the basic data recorder. They're pretty cool IMO. I'm wondering they usually go for when they include the tapes...
Did you win that exact one? I hate you! lol I wanted that so badly but was outbid at the last second!
No no no! Not the one in the auction. I got mine from elsewhere.
Ah...mind sharing its contents with us?
I've got one of those, all revisions along with the tester/internal release carts [capability units].
awesome! know anywhere that I could learn BASIC to use this by chance? :D
Try googling "basic programming" there's plenty of results.
Hi!
I think scanning the manual and this guide would be very good!
So if someone has one of those documents, please scan it, so someone else who can read japanese could translate it. :)
I definately would, but unfortunately with my Family Basic there was no manual included... :-\
Indeed. I have the manuel, but its huge. I am unsure if it would even fit on my scannerbed.
is it bigger as DinA4? (if this norm means something for you ;) )
its 29.5 x 21 cm. It just barely fits in my scanner bed. If someone will be willing to edit traslate it, I'll add it to the project. But due to the considerable work, I wont do it unless someone promises to translate it in english first.
great! ;)
what about an extra thread to announce this project?
I see you guys are playing with family basic
I am trying to figure out how to access the graphics mode
on all other dialecs of basic I know this would be screen 2 eg
10 screen 2
and then you will be able to do stuff like
20 circle (50,50),25,2
but it does not like the screen command
so if any of you guys know please let me know..
btw I am playing with the pirate version of famicom basic..
got my old trusty spectravideo 328 manual just about everything works from there except the screen statement!
anyways here is a list of the error codes and what they mean I see this is the same as SVbasic
eg SN?
code Explanation
NF Next without For
SN Syntax Error
RG Return without Gosub
OD Out of Data
FC Illegal function call
OV Math Overflow
OM Out of Memory
UL Undefined Line eg goto 10 but there is no 10
BS Subscript out of range think arrays
DD Redimensioned array a static array has been defined but handled like a dynamic one
/0 Division by zero
ID Illegal Direct
TM Type Mismatched
OS out of string space
LS string Constant to Long
ST String Formula to Complex
CN Cant Continue
UF function not defined
I see the sound generator works on the famicom
eg 10 Play "CDE"
it supports Octave eg
10 Play "o1CDE"
does not support tempo
does not support Length
does not support shape
does not support Tone
supports REST eg
R = rest numeric following gives time of rest
10 play "CR1DR10C"
Supposts VOLUME eg
10 PLAY "V1CDE"
unable to play multiple tones at the same time (maybe it uses a different syntax )
hmmm anyways if someone can give me the graphics mode command I will type up a few lists of test progs for the basic interpreter.. if anyone is interested..
Family Basic doesn't have graphics modes. Background graphics are printed onto the screen the same exact way text is printed onto the screen. They are predefined 8x8 tiles and nothing more.
There are some special commands regarding sprites, but I haven't gotten them all figured out. I have a sample program for showing off the sprites here:
http://www.famicomworld.com/forum/index.php?topic=1906.msg23902#msg23902 (http://www.famicomworld.com/forum/index.php?topic=1906.msg23902#msg23902)
Thanks UglyJoe that is pointing me in the right direction now I can go play a-bit
hmm all I need to figure out is how to save with this famiclone?!
wish i could hook up a tape drive be like my old spectravideo all over again
kind of make sense the sprites on the famicom no need for psets and all that jazz
just funny how the famicom does it
usually I would do sprites like this
10 SCREEN 1 REM No Screen on the famicom!
20 FOR T = 1 TO 8 REM 8 data lines
30 READ a$
40 S$=S$ +CHR$(VAL("&B" + A$"))
50 NEXT T
60 SPRITE$(1) = S$
70 PUT SPRITE 0,(128,96),8,1: GOTO 70
100 DATA 00011000
110 DATA 00111100
120 DATA 01111110
130 DATA 01111110
100 DATA 01111110
110 DATA 01111110
120 DATA 00111100
130 DATA 00011000
anyways this would have given a round ball on the screen
now got to wrap my head around this family basic
thanks again for the info!
Could anyone tell me how to work this a little bit better? Or tell me any codes I can write to start out once I get to the Command Prompt?
I'm pretty sure famicomBASIC is just like any other BASIC.
There are tons of different things you can try, try google search "BASIC"
Actually I've read on these forums that the Famicom BASIC is very different when compared to other ones..
BASIC is BASIC, but very version of BASIC are tweaked a little differently. One of these days, I'd like to see full scans of the pages of the rather large manual and have our resident translator Manuel write up an English translation of it. Since it would be a considerable undertaking, I wouldn't expect him to do it for free. If of course, he would agree to do it, would anyone else be willing to support a donation drive towards paying Manuel for a translation of the scans? I think it could work if we all chipped in a few bucks to make it worth his while.
Search the forums for info. Satoshi and I have a couple of informative threads for it already (including a syntax list and a couple of sample programs).
Regarding the manual translation, again, I don't think it's necessary to anyone who knows how to program already. The concepts are the same as any other BASIC programming language. The difference is syntax and a few quirks associated with the fact that it's running on a Famicom.
UglyJoe is right. (I'll still take donations... jk ;))
I've had a look at the manual for Family Basic V3, and I don't know how that differs from the normal Family Basic manual, but most of the text in there are just simple instructions, which you could most likely find in other tutorials, too.
It would still be nice if anybody put a scan of the manual online for everybody to see.
I ordered Family BASIC V3 boxed from risingstuff.com with all the manuals and stuff. I would be willing to scan it and put it up somewhere. I just have to wait for it to arrive. it's been like 3 weeks since i ordered it. :-\ Apparently they have been very busy...
Any suggestions on what image hosting site would be adequate? I have a photobucket account that I use, would that be ok?
I would zip up all the jpgs and put it on mediafire or something.
I would suggest creating a .pdf file out of your scans, so it will be compiled as an e-doc.
I was thinking of saving them as PNG's for better quality, but the file size might be a bit large...
Yeah, Iv'e heard of mediafire. good idea! :D
I'll let you guys know when it arrives!
Woo. Finally got a Family Basic system with manual. The keys on the keyboard are so small...
How does it play? Take pics of any "games" you make :)
Quote from: UglyJoe on January 12, 2009, 07:34:21 pm
Woo. Finally got a Family Basic system with manual. The keys on the keyboard are so small...
Get a computer Famiclone, those come with a normal-sized PC type keyboard, and should be directly compatible with the Family BASIC cartridge :P.
Quote from: 133MHz on January 12, 2009, 07:47:37 pm
Quote from: UglyJoe on January 12, 2009, 07:34:21 pm
Woo. Finally got a Family Basic system with manual. The keys on the keyboard are so small...
Get a computer Famiclone, those come with a normal-sized PC type keyboard, and should be directly compatible with the Family BASIC cartridge :P.
Yeah, the ROM is about the same as the game lol...
But strangely... I do not know how to press backspace...haha on my ROM, whenever I press backspace; it does nothing
Quote from: #589 -nintendodork on January 12, 2009, 07:43:12 pm
How does it play? Take pics of any "games" you make :)
It plays exactly as I'd expected it to play (having messed with the rom for a while). I didn't realize that the battery backup on the cart is actually powered by 2 AA batteries. The batteries that were in there leaked a little bit, but failed to corrode anything but a little plastic.
The computer I have my Famicom hooked up to is kinda crappy. It can barely handle displaying the Famicom through my USB TV dealy. Recording doesn't have a chance. And I can't get the SAVE/LOAD thing to work either because the machine causes too much interference with the line-in recording.
But it's just day one, I'll get it working somehow.
Quote from: 133MHz on January 12, 2009, 07:47:37 pm
Get a computer Famiclone, those come with a normal-sized PC type keyboard, and should be directly compatible with the Family BASIC cartridge :P.
Nah, I have boney fingers so the small keys aren't an issue for me. The non-US101 keyboard layout and less-than-stellar response time are the bigger problems. I have to force myself to type slower -- which is actually kind of calming once you get the hang of it.
Quote from: #589 -nintendodork on January 12, 2009, 07:49:32 pm
But strangely... I do not know how to press backspace...haha on my ROM, whenever I press backspace; it does nothing
The STOP key is probably mapped to backspace. The DEL key might be mapped to Del, which functions as you'd expect backspace to work. You can also use Ctrl+H to go back a space, or just hit the left arrow key and resume typing (since it overwrites by default).
edit:Could someone give me a quick translation? I can't figure out what this key does (click for larger version):
(http://ximwix.net/storage/grphthumb.jpg) (http://ximwix.net/storage/grph.jpg)
It says that it is used for adding those little dots (nigori) to katakana to make voiced consonants (e.g. te テ -> de デ)
It's also used to input "graphic symbols" from the upper row of keys on the keyboard.
Ok, I've heard those Japanese diacritic marks called dakuten, handakuten, plosive markers, and tentens. What's the official name?
Quote from: manuel on January 12, 2009, 10:06:19 pm
It says that it is used for adding those little dots (nigori) to katakana to make voiced consonants (e.g. te テ -> de デ)
It's also used to input "graphic symbols" from the upper row of keys on the keyboard.
Aha! So it does. I never thought to try it while it was in kana mode. Thanks!
Glad to be of help. :D
So I've been trying to get the SAVE/LOAD thing to work. Like many computers from its time, it saves and loads data onto an audio cassette. Rather than using a cassette, I've been trying to get it to work through the line-in and line-out on my computer.
The first computer I tried was too noisy -- to the point where I couldn't get clean playback. I tried it on my laptop and got a really clean recording. The problem is...it doesn't work. When I try to load it back to the Famicom, it acts like nothing is happening.
When it's working properly, it should look like this:
SAVE"TEST"
WRITING TEST
OK
That part works. I can playback the recording on my computer and it sounds like modem noise. I'm assuming that's correct.
The loading part should look like this:
LOAD"TEST"
LOADING TEST
OK
That part doesn't work. I type in the load command, hit return, then press play on my computer (I have the line-out wired to the FC's line-in). The FC just sits there, though. I never get a "LOADING TEST" response.
I'm curious if anyone has had any luck getting Family Basic to save/load at all. Also, if you've used this kind of saving/loading with an audio cassette with some other old computer, can you let me know of any tricks you used to get things working? Any info is appreciated.
I'm very familiar with the audio cassette data storage mechanism of Atari 8-bit computers (in fact I was involved in a project about cracking a very successful turbo loading circuitry for it), so I've had plenty of experience (and frustration) with cassette data storage ;).
Noisy audio? that could be a series of factors:
- Audio cable going bad or internally miswired.
- Faulty Famicom power adapter (dry main filter capacitor introducing AC ripple on the voltage rail - Family BASIC keyboard poses a significant power drain that could bring a faulty capacitor to its knees, even if everything else works fine).
- Ground loop issues (Famicom shouldn't be grounded, probably it's getting grounded through your TV your your Cable TV system if you have one, or CATV system is at some voltage potential). Try unplugging CATV coax connector, lift TV and/or computer's ground prong.
- Erratic software configuration, like the Line-in input is acting as a Microphone input and it's trying to bias the line and applying wrong amplification. Modern 'smart' audio cards tend to suffer from this problem.
If the Famicom isn't listening anything, that's most certainly a volume issue. As with most old computers, you'll have to test a wide range of volume levels until you find one that works. Some computers like the ZX spectrum like their audio inputs
VERY LOUD, while others get overloaded if the volume is more than barely up. Also a faulty/miswired cable could be playing a role here. Maybe the Famicom is expecting the data in one specific channel, or both.
Also, check for cold solder joints on the Famicom keyboard's line-in plug, and squirt some contact cleaner into it, it could be dirty and/or broken and not letting audio get through.
Hey UglyJoe, could you post a recording of some audio data from the Family BASIC keyboard? I love old computer data sounds and I'm dying to hear how does the Famicom BASIC data sounds like ;D
Here's an audio sample:
http://ximwix.net/storage/background.wma (http://ximwix.net/storage/background.wma)
Thanks for the advice. Still not working, but you gave me some more things to try. Namely, I made the assumption that the input/output was mono. It's possible I'm playing back on the wrong channel or even that I've been neglecting a channel altogether.
edit:
Stereo cable makes no difference. It seems to only send audio over the left channel. Sending audio back out over the right channel didn't seem to have any effect either.
Quote from: Rogles on January 13, 2009, 02:58:06 am
Ok, I've heard those Japanese diacritic marks called dakuten, handakuten, plosive markers, and tentens. What's the official name?
Dakuten is the 2 dots in the top right (Tenten is more of a slang word for it I think). Handakuten is the little circle in the top right.
Thanks for the audio! ;D. The blocks are really short and the IRGs (Inter-Record Gaps) are really long.
BTW I think I've found your problem: The recording is too damn low. Taking a look at the file on my favorite audio editing application, I can see that the waveform is almost flat, and when playing the oscilloscope trace barely moves. There's no way it would work like that, serious data loss entails. Also I can hear a faint electronic-like noise but that may be unavoidable.
If you're plugging the keyboard directly to the sound card inputs, then you need to use an amplifier in between for record & playback (a pair of amplified computer speakers or a small stereo system will do). When recording, try to get the waveform's amplitude at least half or 3/4 of the available height, and for playback, use the amplifier to vary the volume of the audio sent to the keyboard. As a bonus, using the amplifier will allow to to lower the computer's recording & playback internal volumes, reducing the amount of electronic noise on the lines.
For the record (I assume you already know this but I'm going to say it anyway): Don't use lossy audio compression formats like MP3 or WMA to store computer audio data. The reason is left as an exercise for the reader :).
Thanks again for the info!
The audio coming out of the keyboard isn't amplified. I plugged a set of headphones into it and it's very faint. I had my mic boost turned on at first, but that "faint electronic-like noise" gets a big boost, too. Definitely too noisy. So, what you heard is about as clean as I could get it. I'll try it again tonight with an external amplifier.
And, yeah, I'm aware of the WMA issue. Vista's sound recorder is horribly gimped. I'll install Audacity tonight (which I really should have done at the beginning...wasn't really thinking straight last night).
BTW, don't use the Mic input on your PC, use the Line in input. The Mic input is specifically designed for crappy PC electret-type microphones, it puts out +5V for microphone power and applies a weird audio amplification curve to the signal that makes anything other than a microphone sound like utter crap. The line in input is the purest audio input you can get.
Ha! Using wav instead of wma and an external amp did the trick. Thanks so much. I can finally get around to using this thing.
I tried using the external amp and wma -- it gets a tape error when it gets to the file name (the first quick blip) :P
Glad to be of help ;).
Can I have a good audio sample now plz? ;D
I'm typing up a sample program from one of the books I got with it. I'll post the file when I'm done.
edit: here you go: http://ximwix.net/storage/wrap.wav (http://ximwix.net/storage/wrap.wav)
Thanks for the audio sample! That sounds a lot better ;D
I've been trying the LOAD and SAVE commands on my pirate BASIC thing, and they don't seem to work. I only get a ?SN ERROR :'(
Hmm...either you typed something in wrong or the pirates removed the command altogether. Try just typing SAVE and hitting return. If you get a ?SN ERROR, then they removed the command.
So, newbie to Family BASIC here, I just learned how to print text. I'm practicing in an emulator for when I get a physical copy of it. Too bad V3 is so rare...
Cool. Do you have any programming experience?
None whatsoever, I'm just trying to load and save backgrounds now. I'd never be able to actually make a program, unless by some miracle the manual was translated and uploaded. Family BASIC seems easier than normal BASIC, no wonder so many famous programmers started out making their own games on Family BASIC.
I figured once I get either a keyboard Famiclone or a Famicom/Family BASIC setup I'll invest in a tape player, which admittedly will not look as nice as a real Data Recorder, but it will function just the same. Any idea how where to get tapes with games already on them?
Too bad new cassette tapes are so hard to find, looks like I'll have to buy cheap ones, put them in the player, cover up the microphone with something, and press record for the entire length of the tape.
Quote from: Tupin on March 28, 2009, 09:41:04 pm
I figured once I get either a keyboard Famiclone or a Famicom/Family BASIC setup I'll invest in a tape player, which admittedly will not look as nice as a real Data Recorder, but it will function just the same.
Famiclone Keyboards don't have the necessary connections for loading and saving programs from cassette tape.
Quote from: Tupin on March 28, 2009, 09:41:04 pm
Too bad new cassette tapes are so hard to find, looks like I'll have to buy cheap ones, put them in the player, cover up the microphone with something, and press record for the entire length of the tape.
Get a bulk tape eraser, or build your own out of a light bulb and some wire.
A light bulb and some wire?
Yep. A bulk tape eraser is just a big electromagnet connected to the wall socket. The alternating magnetic field caused by the alternating current flowing through the coil erases magnetic media like a blowtorch melts butter.
You can make your own by winding a coil of wire, the longer the better. You then put this coil in series with a 100W light bulb and add a plug. The series light bulb is there to avoid a short circuit. If you don't want to wind your own coil, you can salvage the degaussing coil from an old monitor or TV set. You then plug the thing in, pass your tapes through the loop of wire and they'll become erased at the other end.
What about just taking a magnet and swiping it over the tape a lot?
Any idea on where to get that Hudson-made tape that had like ten very basic games on it and used sprites from Lode Runner?
A permanent magnet would barely work, and it's going to be tedious to swipe the magnet over and over again. The magic is in the alternating magnetic field caused by household AC. If you're not DIY-inclined, you can always look around for a bulk tape eraser.
As for the tapes, I think that whoever gets his/her hands on one should encode it to a digital format for everybody to download historic preservation.
Yeah, I've yet to see any dumps of games made on cassette or the Hudson cassette anywhere.
This auction contains a keyboard, data recorder, and the game (I think the one you mentioned).
http://cgi.ebay.com/Nintendo-Famicom-Data-Recorder-Basic-Keyboard-Game_W0QQitemZ350186327541QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item350186327541&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318|301%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50
Finding this item is what sparked my interest in the finer points of the Famicom, which in turn led me to find these forums :P
In that case, Welcome.
I have a pirated version of FB, and a ROM of it as well. I have the ROM on a CD that contains an NES emulator for the Dreamcast. The DC keyboard works with the emulator!
Cool, I'd like to try that sometime. I have 2 DC keyboards. :)
Use NESTERDC SE. It also works with the Dreamcast Light Gun or third-party guns for Zapper games.
I just got a set of FB, keyboard and cart, as well as a Data Recorder online. For some reason, they keyboard doesn't seem to want to much. Like when I hit F1, the "_" underscore only comes up. I'm sure it's broke, but just wanted to see if I'm not going insane.
That doesn't sound right. What happens when you turn it on? Do you get some weird looking computer thing, something that resembles a command prompt, or a screen displaying a message (white text on black)?
Depending on what screen you're at, the F1 key will do different things.
Is it possible that one of the modifier keys could be stuck?
I get the startup screen I see in pics, but when it comes time to enter anything, none of the keys appear to do anything except when I hold down "shift", which then F1 gives an underscore, and some of the basic keys give symbols.
Hmm...it sounds like 133mhz was right.
The GRPH key (to the left of the space bar) is used to enter marked characters (ta -> da, ka -> ga, etc). That would explain why only some of the keys are working (since not all characters can be marked).
Shift also (I believe) is used to insert characters with handakuten marks (ha -> pa, he -> pe, etc), which would limit you to even fewer keys (just five).
I can't seem to get it to anything else. The GRPH key doesn't seem to respond, and the only thing that seems to work is Shift, which I only get the symbols to work. Did anyone ever have a problem like this before?
My keyboard has never had that problem, no. If I were in your situation, I would mash on the GRPH and Shift keys a bunch of times (in an attempt to knock them loose, assuming they're stuck) and see if that helps. If not, I would open it up and see if any buttons appear to be stuck.
Dang. I've got an original Famicom and an AV. I've tried it on both, so I know it isn't the system, or the port. After mashing the GRPH and Shift buttons, only things I seem to get are that F1 now gives a ?. I feel ripped off.
So if I were to take this thing apart, what would I need to look out for?
Have you checked the connector, both on the keyboard and on the Famicom? The connector on my famiclone had cold solder joints on the board, so any controller plugged into it wouldn't work correctly. After re-flowing the solder, it now works perfectly.
Quote from: timu-san on September 14, 2009, 02:48:37 pm
So if I were to take this thing apart, what would I need to look out for?
Take a look at the workings of the regular keys versus the GRPH, Shift, and Kana keys. See if anything seems different about them (whether they're stuck down or are exceedingly dirty, etc).
Quote from: ericj on September 14, 2009, 03:34:57 pm
Have you checked the connector, both on the keyboard and on the Famicom? The connector on my famiclone had cold solder joints on the board, so any controller plugged into it wouldn't work correctly. After re-flowing the solder, it now works perfectly.
How do you mean? I'm a little confused of the terminology, but could you throw it to me in layman's terms?
If anyone could please point me in the right direction, as far as taking the thing apart. I don't want to potentinally screw it up. Anyone have any pics of what I should be doing?
Any links to sites that discuss Basic programming specifically on the Famicom?
Specifically interested in the Play command.
And if anyone has a good link to a scan of the first Family Basic manual that would be greatly appreciated. Found a couple dead links on the forums.
Quote from: Hamburglar on July 05, 2010, 03:12:29 pm
Any links to sites that discuss Basic programming specifically on the Famicom?
No, there really aren't. There's this Japanese page: http://page.freett.com/familybasic/index.html (http://page.freett.com/familybasic/index.html), but that's really the best I've found.
Quote from: Hamburglar on July 05, 2010, 03:12:29 pm
Specifically interested in the Play command.
I can scan and upload the reference page for the PLAY command. It's in Japanese, natch, but it'll still give you a pretty good idea of how to use it.
Quote from: Hamburglar on July 05, 2010, 03:12:29 pm
And if anyone has a good link to a scan of the first Family Basic manual that would be greatly appreciated. Found a couple dead links on the forums.
We've never had a link to the full first manual here (the second manual, yes, but that one is only supplemental to the first one). The scans would look really bad unless you pulled all of the pages from the spine. I might do it if I ever come across a cheap second copy of the manual, but I've never found the manual apart from the cart and keyboard.
Thanks UglyJoe, I would greatly appreciate if you could scan that page, currently looking for a real physical manual.
If anyone is interested, there are some sections of the manual that someone translated available here;
http://taylor.veltrop.com/software.php#familybasic
I found that site through Google, haven't seen it posted on the boards in the various Family Basic threads I found.
Ah. That guy pretty much just translated the useful bits from that site that I linked you :P
Anyway, here's the page scans:
http://ximwix.net/storage/famibasic_play.zip (http://ximwix.net/storage/famibasic_play.zip)
It has the two reference pages and also three pages that give some example songs.
Thanks for the scans, I appreciate it.
Having tons of fun with this, is anyone else interested mainly in programming music on the Famicom in Basic?
The 3 channel limitation is a shame though.
Another way to play music in Family Basic is to poke the audio registers. You have to be familiar with how the hardware works, but I'm pretty sure it'd allow you to do more than the PLAY command.
http://www.famicomworld.com/forum/index.php?topic=1408.msg16217#msg16217 (http://www.famicomworld.com/forum/index.php?topic=1408.msg16217#msg16217)
I'd love to play around with one of these. The first programming language I ever used was a BASIC variant and I still have very fond memories of it. I've also been meaning to try my hands at retro homebrew sometime this summer.
Hi All,
I've seen references to a tool for the FDS that allows you to convert Family BASIC programmes from take to disk. Does anybody here know more about this? it would be super-neat and would allow people, like myself, to code games and to convert old TBAs out of magazines (ala RUN) for the Famicom and distribute them on disk instead of tape, so that more people could enjoy them.
For that matter, it's an easy jump from disk to ROM, so it would be possible to make new cart-based games this way as well.
There are some cart-based games that save via tape as well ('Wrecking Crew' on cartridge comes to mind)m, so I know it is possible to do this sort of thing without the FB cart. The Family Data Recorder connects to the keyboard, not the FB game cart, so all I'd need is an FDS app that reads from the tape and saves to a disk.
I know that this exists, but I don't have it. Does anybody here own it, or have any further information? I think it was released only in China...
Anyhow, presently I plan on converting some old text-based games, and when I do, I will see if I can post some WAV files of them for everybody to enjoy. (They are all PD anyway.)
I also have some Family BASIC KBs available if somebody wants to buy one and I have one extra Family BASIC v3 cart that I might sell or rent... I may even loan it to someone (trusted) who wants to program stuff with me or as a group. lastly, I have a huge library of old mags such as 'RUN', 'Compute's Gazette' and' InCider. ain addition to books on BASIC to share.
-Xious
I`ve found this link which explains all the commands that are available in Family Basic V3:
http://www.gamefaqs.com/nes/938747-family-basic-v3/faqs/59317 (http://www.gamefaqs.com/nes/938747-family-basic-v3/faqs/59317)
Hi everyone,
I came across this thread while looking for info about Family Basic.
I am currently translating the manual and posting the translation of each page on the following site:
http://volunteers.playpower.org/photo?xg_pw=&page=4
Please feel free to check these pages and leave any comment in order to improve the translation.
-Sebastien
Very cool. Keep up the good work :star:
This isn't about family basic , but rather the system itself. On 'NESWORLD' there is a translation of a Japanese website about family basic: http://www.nesworld.com/fc-familybasic.php (http://www.nesworld.com/fc-familybasic.php) which has some information about what the system can actually do.
And it has an image of the sprites available for use:
(http://www.nesworld.com/pics/fami2.jpg)
:mario:
One day I were bored, I dumped manually byte by byte the G-BASIC from a Gold Leopard King famiclone (using a program that PEEK'd and shown me the ROM value). It seems that they're using FB 2.0 or FB 2.1 with some things removed (for example, the LOAD and SAVE commands are replaced by L[0x0C]AD and S[0x0C]AVE, but I don't know if the routines are still working or they where stripped as well)
If anybody is interested, here is a patch (in IPS, UPS and xdelta formats) for Family BASIC v2.1 (J) ROM with the SUBOR keyboard routine (extracted from the G-BASIC) included so you can flash it on a EPROM and use it on a Famiclone keyboard. You can test it with FCE Ultra setting the Famicom Expansion Port to "Subor keyboard"
http://www.mediafire.com/?fc84177a8ykymnb
Quote from: socram8888 on September 20, 2011, 08:27:09 am
If anybody is interested, here is a patch (in IPS, UPS and xdelta formats) for Family BASIC v2.1 (J) ROM with the SUBOR keyboard routine (extracted from the G-BASIC) included so you can flash it on a EPROM and use it on a Famiclone keyboard. You can test it with FCE Ultra setting the Famicom Expansion Port to "Subor keyboard"
I LOVE YOU!
No, really, great work! And this IPS even changes the board requirement to (nonstandard) NROM! Since it's non standard and requires some RAM, it can be put together on the Mottzilla's 11-in-1 multicart loader (http://www.nesworld.com/homebrew/multicart.zip) to run as a MMC1 (SUROM)! I will definately test this with my UNIQUE (http://jpx72.detailne.sk/collection_files/consoles_files/famiclone/unique_small.jpg) famiclone, and I hope this time, the "ENTER" key won't write letter "E" anymore :D
By the way I wasn't able to find FB version 2.1 only 2.1a. Does it exist? Or do I have the correct version?
Could have used Keyboard Tranformer instead. http://cah4e3.shedevr.org.ru/dumping/2011/Keyboard_Transformer_(R).rar
Quote from: cubelmariomadness on September 23, 2011, 12:51:55 pm
Could have used Keyboard Tranformer instead. http://cah4e3.shedevr.org.ru/dumping/2011/Keyboard_Transformer_(R).rar
What mapper is that? Nestopia won't run it and FCEU is showing some unlicensed board info... but the size is 32+8kb, maybe it will work as NROM...
working LINK (http://cah4e3.shedevr.org.ru/dumping/2011/Keyboard_Transformer_(R)%5B!%5D.rar)
Beats me what mapper it is. He has a video of it running on a Famicom though, so it'd probably work there.
Well he probably has the original cartridge... Without knowing the proper mapper (board type), you can't run it on hardware. That's why socram8888's IPS patch made me so happy :D
Yeah, I guess I don't really know why I posted that then ;D
Quote from: Sebastien on February 25, 2011, 11:19:21 pm
Hi everyone,
I came across this thread while looking for info about Family Basic.
I am currently translating the manual and posting the translation of each page on the following site:
http://volunteers.playpower.org/photo?xg_pw=&page=4
Please feel free to check these pages and leave any comment in order to improve the translation.
-Sebastien
I don't know if anybody's watching his progress, but it seems to me that he actualy finished translating the whole Basic manual!
Great work!
Does anyone know what the 'GRPH' key does? It's not mentioned in the instructions I don't think...
Quote from: zmaster18 on August 21, 2015, 06:56:20 am
Does anyone know what the 'GRPH' key does? It's not mentioned in the instructions I don't think...
Quote from: manuel on January 12, 2009, 10:06:19 pm
It says that it is used for adding those little dots (nigori) to katakana to make voiced consonants (e.g. te テ -> de デ)
It's also used to input "graphic symbols" from the upper row of keys on the keyboard.
So you have to be in Kana mode for it to do much of anything. I think you need to hold it down (like a shift key), but I don't have the keyboard here in front of me.
Quote from: UglyJoe on August 21, 2015, 07:48:39 am
Quote from: zmaster18 on August 21, 2015, 06:56:20 am
Does anyone know what the 'GRPH' key does? It's not mentioned in the instructions I don't think...
Quote from: manuel on January 12, 2009, 10:06:19 pm
It says that it is used for adding those little dots (nigori) to katakana to make voiced consonants (e.g. te テ -> de デ)
It's also used to input "graphic symbols" from the upper row of keys on the keyboard.
So you have to be in Kana mode for it to do much of anything. I think you need to hold it down (like a shift key), but I don't have the keyboard here in front of me.
I just tried it and it works only in Kana mode like you said. It will add the nigori to katakana and will create a few graphic symbols when you press the number keys.
Quote from: zmaster18 on August 21, 2015, 06:56:20 am
It's not mentioned in the instructions I don't think...
Page 4 and 9 (http://www.famicomworld.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=8876.0;attach=3442). It's for voiced consonants in kana mode but also for typing "graphical symbols". It's like the AltGr (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AltGr_key) key on modern keyboards.
Quote from: P on August 21, 2015, 03:35:19 pm
Quote from: zmaster18 on August 21, 2015, 06:56:20 am
It's not mentioned in the instructions I don't think...
Page 4 and 9 (http://www.famicomworld.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=8876.0;attach=3442). It's for voiced consonants in kana mode but also for typing "graphical symbols". It's like the AltGr (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AltGr_key) key on modern keyboards.
Ah I see. My scan of the English-translated manual only starts on page16.
Yeah that's the problem, the old translation only has the BASIC part of the manual. I scanned and translated everything up to page 15 but it's not inserted into any scan yet. It's just a text file.
My copy of The Untold History of Japanese Game Developers Volume 2 (http://www.amazon.com/Untold-History-Japanese-Game-Developers/dp/1518655319/) arrived yesterday and it has a Hudson chapter. Some interesting Family BASIC info from it:
- It was developed by Takashi Takebe.
- The Nintendo / Hudson relationship was fostered via Sharp. Hudson had made a BASIC interpreter for one of Sharp's early PCs, so Sharp recommended them to Nintendo for Family BASIC.
- Family BASIC was developed on a Sharp X1 (which has a different CPU architecture!) and then cross-assembled for the Famicom. This was apparently a common thing for Hudson to do at the time.
Check out the book (and volume 1) if you haven't already. If you're into old development tools like Family BASIC then I can't see how you won't find the interviews interesting ;D
Sounds like a mighty interesting book! :) Also it looks to me, from the description, that they also finally took note of what could be yakuza connections for a certain video game company based in Kobe.
By cross-assembling do you mean they ran the code on the Sharp X1 through some kind of emulation? Developing video games on a computer with a different architecture must be the norm I thought (or maybe it's a modern concept?).
Quote from: P on November 14, 2015, 09:19:51 am
By cross-assembling do you mean they ran the code on the Sharp X1 through some kind of emulation? Developing video games on a computer with a different architecture must be the norm I thought (or maybe it's a modern concept?).
It doesn't go into too much detail. I doubt it was emulating anything, given that this was early 80s.
Quote from: P on November 14, 2015, 09:19:51 am
By cross-assembling do you mean they ran the code on the Sharp X1 through some kind of emulation? Developing video games on a computer with a different architecture must be the norm I thought (or maybe it's a modern concept?).
Yeah, cross assembling is pretty standard practice. No one ever developed Famicom games on Famicom hardware, so I seriously doubt Famicom BASIC would have been either. A different CPU is no obstacle, I develop Famicom games on a laptop with an Intel Core i5, and cross-assemblers were certainly around in the 80s.
Either way it's interesting to learn what kind of computers they developed the software on.
Quote from: P on November 14, 2015, 11:05:37 am
Either way it's interesting to learn what kind of computers they developed the software on.
Oh yes, definitely :) I remember seeing some old pictures of dev hardware, but couldn't identify it.
Could anyone help me?
I have a family basic cart with some rusty batteries in it that I fixed up, I hope.
How can I most easily test if it saves data?
I don't know much about family basic so a very simple step by step would help. Yes I have the keyboard. :D
Also, If anyone is interested I have a family basic V3 manual that I could take some pics from or if you want me to look something up, but it has 140 pages and I can't take pics of everything. (But of course you can buy it from me once I decide on a price)
1. Go into BASIC mode (backup switch must be OFF).
2. Type a program (or anything with line numbers, but a simple program is more fun):
10 CLS
20 PRINT "TEST"
Enter LIST if you want to see if a program is in memory, or RUN to execute the program.
3. Enter SYSTEM to go back.
4. Set the backup switch to ON.
5. Shut down the Famicom for a while.
6. Turn it on again
7. Turn OFF the backup switch and start BASIC mode.
8. Type RUN or LIST to see if the same program you entered before is still there.
The V3 manual is already fully scanned by Manuel. I'm currently translating it (when I have time) and it has it's own thread.
I think these instructions should have its own thread. When I was new to BASIC, I didn't really know about the battery backup at first. Or maybe we can do some basic tips or tutorials for beginers. 8)
The manual has very beginner friendly explanations to everything but I guess it's not easy to find. A quick-start FAQ might be a good idea.
Quote from: P on January 12, 2016, 01:30:09 pm
1. Go into BASIC mode (backup switch must be OFF).
2. Type a program (or anything with line numbers, but a simple program is more fun):
10 CLS
20 PRINT "TEST"
Enter LIST if you want to see if a program is in memory, or RUN to execute the program.
3. Enter SYSTEM to go back.
4. Set the backup switch to ON.
5. Shut down the Famicom for a while.
6. Turn it on again
7. Turn OFF the backup switch and start BASIC mode.
8. Type RUN or LIST to see if the same program you entered before is still there.
The V3 manual is already fully scanned by Manuel. I'm currently translating it (when I have time) and it has it's own thread.
Thanks. :)
I made a video with your description: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MisD3NzDEwY
An awesome tip for Family BASIC (Non V3 versions) : hold the letter 'F' key while turning on the game. This will take you directly to BASIC mode and you can skip the main screen where it asks you a bunch of questions :)
Ah sorry I never told how to go to BASIC mode, wasn't sure what version you had. But looks like you figured it out.
It asks for your name first (so you called yourself "BASIC" ;D) before it asks to go to BASIC mode. When it asks whether to go to BASIC mode or not, you can say YES, ハイ (press F1 or type it manually) or type a command for what mode you want to start. If you say NO or イイエ (press F2 or type manually) it will ask you about the next mode. You can also say HELLO or コンニチハ (press F3 or type manually) to greet the computer and he will ask to tell your fortune. Everything is explained in the manual fully in English BTW (check link in my signature).
But yeah when you have no more fun with the talking computer you just skip it with F+RESET (oops it was T+RESET) like Zmaster said.
Thank you both!
Another question.
The Q&A booklet, was it included with all Family Basic? I got one for the first time now, haven't seen it before.
(http://japanspelshop.se/image/cache/data/famicom%202017/IMG_3909-800x600.JPG)
No idea if it was originally included in all but it's often missing in auctions or such. I have it for mine and have started translating it a bit. Gonna release it on the forum when it's done.
Quote from: P on May 03, 2017, 02:38:03 pm
No idea if it was originally included in all but it's often missing in auctions or such. I have it for mine and have started translating it a bit. Gonna release it on the forum when it's done.
Do you have any information about it?
I tried but couldn't find anything.
Information? About it's origins or so? Not really, I don't know anything about it.
Family BASIC has been revised many times, both the included manual/papers and the software, If I'd had to guess I'd say it was probably included as a quick reference guide in some later revisions of the "game", with the most common questions people had (although most of the answers can probably be found in the manual as well).
Okay thank you. :)
Yea that makes sense.
Fun trivia is that I often find A4 handbills in the family basic boxes... Last time it was excitebike:
(https://scontent.cdninstagram.com/t51.2885-15/e35/18299242_1768621966782326_7148030417654775808_n.jpg)
I've never seen those handbills before! Very cool 8) It makes me wonder how many times Family BASIC was reissued.
Do you guys know anything about this unreleased version? http://bootgod.dyndns.org:7777/profile.php?id=4622 (http://bootgod.dyndns.org:7777/profile.php?id=4622)
I've seen those handbills, they are promoting other games that support the keyboard.
I think that's the Playbox BASIC prototype which ROM is floating around on internet (HuBASIC version 0). I don't really know much about Playbox BASIC though. It seems to predate Family BASIC and it might be something that was included in a Sharp C1-like setup or something.
Here's a comparison (http://www.sara.to/sigure/game/g12/) of Playbox and Family BASIC including pictures of the Biorhythm Board (the second program on the label of that prototype cart, 3 and 4 are Calculator and Music Board respectively).
Here's a photo of the keyboard (http://s9.postimg.org/nn9b6bb7j/psn00001.jpg).
Playbox BASIC, Family BASIC and Family BASIC V3 all seems to have their own tape format which are incompatible with each other for some reason.
6502 Disassembler in BASIC (http://forum.6502.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4604)
Source code for APPLESOFT Basic (https://archive.org/stream/micro-6502-journal-5/micro_5_jun_1978#page/n27/mode/2up)
Looks a bit big for 1982bytes, but anyone feel free to try :)
There is another link to disassembler written in BBC BASIC dialect. While ago i made something similar, not sure, if posted here.