How to:
Make a cable to plug a NES controller into a Famicom.
When I first bought a Famicom earlier this year, I was surprised to find out that one simple bit of information I assumed people would want was not readily available - how to plug NES controllers into a Famicom. There are pinouts and schematics available on the web, but I didn't see any official adapter cables or "how to" guides.
Earlier today, I finally got the chance to sit down and make a cable. I only made a 1 Player adapter, and I am sure its just as easy to add a 2 player port to the cable. That 15 pin port opens us up to quite a few options. It's quite possible that zapper, Arkanoid controller, etc...support can be added as the 15 port is used for those "native" famicom peripherals - but let's keep things simple for now.
First - I take no responsibility if you kill your famicom (or controller). That out of the way, this is an EASY mod if you have the right tools. Soldering is optional! If you don't know anything about soldering, do not worry.
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b40/estation/Famicom/materials.jpg)
Materials needed
- 1 Neo-Geo extension cable
- 1 NES controller port with connecting wire (You may also consider a NES 4 score or additional NES controller ports)
- Wire strippers capable of stripping 26 AWG wire
- Electrician's scissors or other scissors capable of stripping the controller wire
- Multimeter
- Electrical tape (not pictured)
- Paper and pen for notes
- Needle nose (optional)
- alligator clips (optional for testing. insulated preferred)
- soldering iron & solder (optional & recommended)
Notes - The toughest part about this is probably just getting your supplies - the 15 pin famicom controller port requires a cable with a bit of extra depth on the female end. A standard old PC joystick cable will not work. You could theoretically cut a famicom controller cable and use it in place of an extension cable. I picked up a Neo Geo extension cable and used it. You can find these around the net and often times on ebay. Scout around. Neo Geo translates to "expensive for no reason" no matter what the hardware. Don't pay too much.
Step 1 - With your Neo Geo cable in hand, find the male end of the cable. Cut off the male connector end of the cable with your scissors, but leave an extra couple of inches of cable for workspace.
Step 2 - Put your extension cable (cord with female end) aside and pick up the male end that you just removed. Strip off an inch of the insulation with your scissors. You'll see a bunch of colored wiring inside.
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b40/estation/Famicom/malecolors.jpg)
Step 3 - Strip each of the 15 colored wires using your wire stripper. They should be 26 AWG. They're easy to strip - shouldn't take too long at all.
Step 4 - All of the colored wires need to be "mapped." This is where your paper and pen come into place. I drew a picture of the connector, numbered the pins*, and wrote down the colors for each pin as I found out which wire connected to them. Your wire colors might be different. There is no magical "color code" for these things. Go ahead and draw yourself a pin map so you can write your colors down.
*Might not be standard numbering for this connector
My final pin map looked like this:
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b40/estation/Famicom/writeup.jpg)
Step 5 - Using your multimeter, turn the knob to continuity (the option that beeps when your connectors touch). We'll use this to find out which wires go where.
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b40/estation/Famicom/multimeter.jpg)
Step 6 - Take an alligator clip and fasten one end to one of the multimeter probes and the other end to one of the colored wires. Example shows green wire hooked up to black probe:
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b40/estation/Famicom/probe1.jpg)
Use the other multimeter probe (red in my case) to find out the pin associated with the wire you connected to the alligator clip. Just touch each pin of the connector with your red probe until your multimeter beeps at you. Once you find the pin, write down the color of the wire next to the pin number that beeped at you. Repeat this step for each wire - connect the alligator clip to a different wire and use the free probe to find the pin.
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b40/estation/Famicom/probe2.jpg)
Step 7 - After all the wires are mapped out for the extension cable, map them out for the NES controller port. You should be able to do this just by looking. You can see where each of the colored wires go to the NES connector by looking at the back of it. These wires most likely have a standard color scheme. You can probably use my sheet as a guide for the color mapping, but double check me before assuming.
Step 8 - Cut the green plug off the end of the wires for the NES controller port. Strip each of the wires you need. (See my sheet above)
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b40/estation/Famicom/NESport.jpg)
Step 9 - Take the Neo Geo extension cable with the female end, and strip off a little bit of controller wire with your scissors. You can now strip the 5 colors you will need for your connection using your wire stripper. In my example, I stripped "Brown, Dark Red, Brown w/ Black Stripe, Light Blue, and Light green." No sense stripping all the wires if you are only going to use five of them. At this point, you know the colors you are going to use.
Step 10 - You can use all your alligator clips to temporarily connect your wires for testing.
Otherwise, you can just twist them together. Use my sheet to see which pin numbers are associated with each signal. By coincidence, the ground pins both had brown insulation and were pin #1 in my numbering scheme. You can use your color chart you made in Step 6. For each signal, find the appropriate color of extension cable wire and use an alligator clip to connect it to the appropriate color of NES controller wire. An example from my sheet above would be - Connect Dark Red wire (5V) from extension cable to white wire (5V) of NES connector.
NOTE!! - Make sure you do not let your alligator connections touch other alligator connections. This is mentioned specifically for Ground and 5V. If these two touch, bad things will happen. Here is a picture of my cable during testing mode:
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b40/estation/Famicom/test.jpg)
I played a little bit of Disk Metroid on my dogbone controller to test it out. Worked like a charm!
Step 11 - After you are sure everything works, you can remove the alligator clips and twist each pair of wires together (or solder them together.) Wrap each one with a small piece of electrical tape. You may also elect to use some heat shrink tubing to keep it looking clean. At the least, you probably want to neatly wrap up all the colored wires with electrical tape for protection.
Enjoy!
Excellent tutorial! I did something similar for satoshi_matrix a few months ago. And remember, you could also plug SNES controllers into your Famicom! ;D.
Cool! I'm actually already gathering parts to do just this. I plan on using the NES ports from an NES Satellite, so I don't have the wires coming off of it. Easy enough to work around that, though.
Also, I didn't realize that the NES ports on the NES had those plugs at the end. Are they the same plugs as the Famicom's attached controllers?
Ah this is cool but I am defenetly not techinically minded as much as I'd hope ;D
I have something slightly unrelated to ask.
I was wondering something: some knock off controllers such as the ones for the Handy FamiEight have end ports that have 9 pins and are shaed like Sega Genesis and Commodore 64 Controllers, yet those knock off controllers do not work with either the Commodore or the Genesis. When I found out about their port type, I was excited of the prospect of using an NES controller to play some early Genesis games that only really need 2 buttons at most since the +pad on the NES controller is just simply better than that of the Genesis, but it didnt work. So why not? Is it even possible to use an NES controller on a Genesis?
It's possible, but you have to modfify the NES pad. Genesis controllers don't have any kind of IC in them, they're just switches while the NES controller uses a serial protocol to comunicate with the console. So you have to remove the IC from the controller and wire the cables to the individual button pads.
woo, thanks 133. any tips on how to:
find out where the IC is on the NES controller? (maybe it would help if you told me what I'm looking for) and then remove it?
figure whch leads are which pins on a Genesis controller or if it matters, the Genesis itself?
Here is a NES controller board in all its glory:
(http://devcast.dcemulation.com/mods/madnes/nes2_clip_image015.jpg)
The IC is the only chip in the center of the board. It reads TC4021BP
The buttons mapped out like this: ground=8 up=4 down=5 left=6 right=7 start=13 A=1 B=15 select=14.
(http://devcast.dcemulation.com/mods/madnes/nes2_clip_image017.jpg)
Thanks a lot o133MHz, but it isn't the original boxy controller I want to mod, but instead the NES 2 dogbone. Here's the board for that:
(http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/6290/nes2controllerak1.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
(http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/6290/nes2controllerak1.6170145876.jpg) (http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=518&i=nes2controllerak1.jpg)
Direct link:
http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/6290/nes2controllerak1.jpg
So am I to understand in order to get it working on the Genesis controller, I first must cut off the IC chip completely?
Note the differences between the cord leads. The NES standard connects each wire to a specific spot while the dogbone connects them altogher in a five pin hub thingie. Is it possible that I could find a Genesis compatible cord that woudl fit into this hub?
Also, I can post the Genesis controller board if you need to see it.
Quote from: satoshi_matrix on November 19, 2007, 03:20:47 pm
So am I to understand in order to get it working on the Genesis controller, I first must cut off the IC chip completely?
Correct.
Quote from: satoshi_matrix on November 19, 2007, 03:20:47 pm
Note the differences between the cord leads. The NES standard connects each wire to a specific spot while the dogbone connects them altogher in a five pin hub thingie. Is it possible that I could find a Genesis compatible cord that woudl fit into this hub?
Once you remove the IC you don't use the hub anymore. You solder the Genesis joystick wires directly to the points where the IC was mounted.
Hehe I was just looking at Genesis pinouts and I see they're a little more complicated than I thought. Some buttons are multiplexed by a logic chip. Read
here (http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~chuck/infopg/segasix.txt) for more info.
EDIT: Extracted the relevant info from the textfile.
Quote
The interface for the original three button controller is relatively
simple. (I know that it has been described elsewhere, but I think
that this description is more straightforward.) You can open up the
controller and see that a standard quad 2:1 multiplexer chip is
inside, a 74HC157. A 2:1 multiplexer directs data from one of two
sources to a single input line based on the state of a select signal.
So, theoretically, this chip would allow 8 signals to be sent over 4
data lines. The way the Genesis uses this chip, the data from the 8
switches in the controller is sent over 6 data lines, not quite the
most economical solution, but one which makes the controller backwards
compatible with Atari 2600 joysticks.
Inside the controller is a small PC board which contains the 74HC157,
some 10K pull-up resistors and some bypass capacitors. The switches
are connected so when a switch is pressed (closed) it shorts its
output to ground, otherwise it's output is 5 volts (via the pull-up
resistors). One additional connection is a pull-up resistor on the
select line. If it is left unconnected it will be "pulled" high.
The following tables summarize how the signals are mapped to DB-9.
The output signal to a particular pin depends on the state of the
select line from the Genesis. During a standard game, the processor
will set the select line high or low, depending on the which game
controller buttons it wants to read.
This table lists connections which are outputs from the Genesis to the
controller, the first column is the pin number of the DB-9:
Pin Connection
--- ---------------
5 Power: +5 Volts
7 Select signal
8 Power: Ground
This table lists connections which are outputs from the controller to
the Genesis and are dependent on the logic level to the select signal,
again the first column is the pin of number the DB-9:
Pin Connection with select low Connection with select high
--- -------------------------- ---------------------------
1 joypad up signal joypad up signal
2 joypad down signal joypad down signal
3 logic low (ground) joypad left signal
4 logic low (ground) joypad right signal
6 Button A signal Button B signal
9 Start button signal Button C signal
Notice that the signals on pins 1 and 2 are not affected by the select
signal, there is a direct connection from those switches to the
corresponding pins. Also notice that signals on pins 3 and 4 are not
used to send switch info when select is low.
Guys, now i'm panicing! I did the controller thing and all, but when i plugged it in, my famicom displayed a glitchy screen! It usually never does that! I turned it off, unplugged the controller, and reinserted the game, but now the games are only glitchy! :-[ :-[The music still works perfectly though, but the screen is always a glitchy mess! I think i blew up something and it looks bad! What do I do!!?? :-[ :'(
How 'glitchy' it is? Is it possible for you to provide pictures?
Yeah I'll take some right now! OMG I'm freaking out now! :'( :-[
Here are pics!
From SMB 2 Japan. Note that you can still see the game playing, as you can see the screen scrolling and mario sorta walking.
(http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6990/dscn1124ix8.jpg)
(http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/3436/dscn1125pk9.jpg)
The title screen from Mother;
(http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/6035/dscn1127nz8.jpg)
Please tell me I can easily fix this! I don't want to lose my precious Square Button Famicom because I did something wrong with a controller! :-[
That's pretty hardcore :o
Even if it seems unrelated, try cleaning the cart connector on your Famicom.
As the game program, audio and controllers run fine I think the CPU is OK, but it appears something between the CHR ROM lines and the PPU screwed up, or even the PPU itself. Try things like wiggling the cart and see if the screen changes or something. I don't want to state the obvious, but have you removed everything related to the joystick mod? Maybe something is shorting on the EXT connector.
Nope...nothing changes. I have another broken Famicom, so I'm wondering, would it be a good idea to switch the PPU's from one another? Or what else shoould I do? Does it look like something hard to fix? Only the graphics are the problem everything else works fine.
Sounds like a PPU problem, if you can, try to replace the PPU.
Quote from: keiffer01 on November 19, 2007, 06:45:53 pm
Only the graphics are the problem everything else works fine.
Yeah, that gives the PPU as the culprit. The CPU processes the game program, sound and joystick input, while the PPU does the graphics and connects directly to the Character ROM on the cartridge. It receives the orders on what & where to draw from the CPU and outputs composite video as the result. If everything else works fine the video system seems very likely to be busted (be it the PPU itself or something along its path).
So...you're saying my Famicom is dead? :-[ Would there be any places where they could sell spare parts or Mother Boards for a Famicom system? And the PPU, is it the biggest chip on the bottom part of the famicom, towards the EXT port, or the big one in the middle? :-[
The big one in the middle. It says 2C02. The CPU is 2A03.
Maybe you could get a broken NES for cheap (NES almost always fail because of its cart connector) and donate its PPU for your Famicom.
The NES and Famicom use the exact same PPU?
Yes, but NTSC NESes only ;).
Hey keiffer01, I'm sorry to hear about your Famicom. I hope it feels better soon! :)
133MHz: okay long post, please try to forgive my noobness this is all new to me.
Okay, so I read your post and its real informative, thank you. just to confirm: I need to completely remove the IC chip on the NES 2 controller labeled GD14021BP so I have 16 holes in the controller for which to place Genesis wires into.
The spaces where the cords need to go are
8 for Ground
4 for Up
5 for Down
6 for Left
7 for Right
14 for Select
13 for Start
15 for B
1 for A
But what about the remaining spaces 2, 3, 9, 10, 11, 12, 16 on the NES controller? Do I just leave them empty?
Moving on: Luckily for the infornation you provided, it is indeed a standard run of the mill 3 button Genesis controller I want to use the cord off of. I have other Genesis pads, but this is the one that's most expendable.
I opened open the controller and inside luckily Sega clearly numbered the wires, which from left to right, read:
6 (blue) 9 (white) 8 (black) 4 (yellow) 3 (orange) 7 (grey) 5 (green) 2 (red) 1 (brown)
I'm not sure if the colour of the wires matters or not so I listed them as well.
Since the Genesis's wiring is set up as:
1 for Up
2 for Down
3 for Ground & Left
4 for Ground & Right
6 for A & B
9 for Start & C
then what would inputs 7 and 8 be for? Do the wires that go into the Genesis leads 3 4 6 and 9 carry two different inputs, making them useless without the Genesis's 74HC157 chip? Does any of this even matter?
In other words, how do I know which inputs of the 9 Genesis controller wires corrispond with which inputs of the NES pad's now missing IC ports? Does this matter or does all that matters here is that there is a wire, regardless of what it did on the original Genesis controller, going into the NES's pin 1 and when I press the A button, the A button responds accordingly? If that's all that I need to know then I'm going to go ahead and preform the mod.
I want the NES controller to corrispond with this Genesis controller layout:
NES inputs = Genesis inputs
+pad = +pad
B = A
A = B
Start = Start
Select = C
Hey 133mhz, on what side chip I put the NES chip in the Famicom board? And do you have any tips to unsolder the chips out properly? ;D And by the way, I have this NES clone which is broken, but both of the CPU and PPU chips are removable because they are only installed in sockets. Since I have another clone which is exactly the same and working, I switched the chips and found out they are working perfectly. So I'm wondering, could they be compatible with my Famicom? Maybe the data in them is completely different from the Famicom, making it incompatible, no? :P
Quote from: keiffer01 on November 20, 2007, 01:21:58 pm
Hey 133mhz, on what side chip I put the NES chip in the Famicom board?
Check for a small dot on one of the corners of the chip. It indicates Pin 1.
(http://mechatronics.mech.northwestern.edu/stack_files/Img0012.jpg)
Mark this corner on the board with a magic marker before removing the PPU, and when installing the new one check the orientation. DON'T PLUG THE PPU BACKWARDS! DOUBLE CHECK! TRIPLE CHECK! QUADRUPLE CHECK! I can't stress this enough ;D. It's very easy to make a mistake like that, even if it doesn't seem like so.
Quote from: keiffer01 on November 20, 2007, 01:21:58 pm
And do you have any tips to unsolder the chips out properly? ;D
Buy some desoldering braid. A small roll costs a buck and it will be more than enough for this purpose. Use a low wattage soldering iron (a high-wattage one could lift the traces off the board and ruin your Famicom!). Apply fresh solder to all of the PPU pins (that will loosen the decades-old machine solder), then apply the braid over one pin, put the soldering iron tip over the braid spot which covers the pin and it will absorb all the solder in the pin hole. Repeat the process for all the pins, then you can lift the PPU without problems ;). If one pin is stubborn, apply a little fresh solder and try again. It will come all out eventually.
Quote from: keiffer01 on November 20, 2007, 01:21:58 pm
And by the way, I have this NES clone which is broken, but both of the CPU and PPU chips are removable because they are only installed in sockets. Since I have another clone which is exactly the same and working, I switched the chips and found out they are working perfectly. So I'm wondering, could they be compatible with my Famicom? Maybe the data in them is completely different from the Famicom, making it incompatible, no? :P
If they're standalone chips there's a 99% probability they are pin-compatible with Nintendo's PPU (they may be identical copies). I recommend you buy and install a chip socket like the ones your Famiclones have and install it on your Famicom once you remove the PPU from it, that way you can test various PPUs without soldering and desoldering them which is a pain in the ass. That way you can plug one of your clone's PPU and if it works, leave it. If it doesn't, get a broken NES for cheap and steal its PPU ;D.
Oh and BTW, chips like the CPU and PPU don't contain any 'data' in them, like memory chips (well if you get pedantic they do contain some data, but for practical purposes we're ignoring microcode and that stuff ::)), incompatibilities can arise if the pinouts between them are different, but if your Famiclones have separate CPU and PPU chips just like a real FC, I can say with 99% accuracy they're identical copies ;).
Hey what about me? :P lol sorry to be impatient I just want to get started on this as soon as I can.
You are the tech guru around here 133 I know its tough everyone relying on you!!
hmmm, that's pretty interesting about the genesis controller. I always use a genesis controller with my Atari 2600 but I never realized that sega went specifically out of their way to design it to be backwards compatible. That's really weird. I wonder why they did that.
Quote from: 133MHz on November 19, 2007, 07:28:58 pm
The big one in the middle. It says 2C02. The CPU is 2A03.
Maybe you could get a broken NES for cheap (NES almost always fail because of its cart connector) and donate its PPU for your Famicom.
hi :) today my famicom that worked perfect before, is dead :( after searching the problem on av circuit, that was ok, i find that the cpu became very hot :'( (i remember here that another have this problem, what is the thread?)
now it don't read games and output gray screen like when no games in, and no sound.
i have put the 2 audio cables on cpu pin 1-2, with 10uf capacitor for each cable, negative pole on cpu side, positive on jack output. (on one of them i have soldered the capacitor leg directly on cpu pin, is correct? or maybe it has broken for this?
maybe is the tv? because i have connected audio cables first on tv (switched on) and then connected to famicom, then switched on the famicom: gray screen-cpu hot
now i want find the cpu :-X (pal cpu is not good for famicom?)
Wow sounds pretty bad. Check the resistance between the power pin(s) of the CPU and the ground one(s). Too low of a resistance (as in the tens of ohms) means the poor CPU is toast. Maybe you'll have to remove the CPU, turn on the Famicom and see if the voltage normalizes and no other components short/blow/etc.
Maybe the regulator shorted, applying the full ~13V to the system (seen it happen on an old amplifier system, the 7812 shorted applying around 24V to the mixer board for ages, until the thing was f*cked beyond repair). Check the 5V line. Too low of a voltage could be the shorted CPU overloading it (releasing massive amounts of power as heat). Remove the CPU and check the 5V again if this happens. If removing it makes the voltage shoot to oblivion, then the 7805 is shorted, and maybe other components have suffered. If it gets back to a stable 5V (+/- 10% is OK), there is hope in revival by replacing the CPU ;).
Could it be your stereo audio mod? I don't think so. But check your TV if you are in doubt. Maybe it's leaking current through the A/V connections (some TVs use a 'hot' chassis, where everything is connected to one side of the power line - like sticking your finger into a power plug! All connections to the outside world are isolated through capacitors, some of these can fail or another fault can make the TV leak current). Get one of those screwdrivers which light up when you insert them into a wall plug (used to find the 'live' wire on an electrical installation). Put the end into the AV connector shell on the TV, touch the back of it and with your other hand touch the floor (or do it barefoot). If it lights up, your TV is leaking current. Another not-so-accurate test is just touching the connector while barefoot or with one hand on the ground. If you feel 'teh tingles', you know what it is.
Sorry to hear about your Famicom. Fortunately a replacement CPU can be obtained from a NES ! ;D
As you added '(pal cpu is not good for famicom?)'
A PAL CPU will not make a PAL Famicom, but it does run at a little different clock speed, so the games may run a little faster or slower, or the games will have the quirks they would have if played on a PAL machine. Do you live in a PAL territory?
yeah pal territory. what are the quirks?
so if clock is different i don't think is good for famicom. or not?
i've tried with the screwdriver on the tv audio connector, the external side, it don't fit inside it, and it light up.
i've tested on samsung lcd and no light.
if i find the cpu how i desolder it? i don't think i can do it :-X
Quote from: Arnold101 on December 11, 2007, 10:47:01 pm
yeah pal territory. what are the quirks?
so if clock is different i don't think is good for famicom. or not?
It will work, but a little slower or faster. I think some games would not display some things correctly, but I'm not that familiar with PAL NES stuff, maybe somebody here knows more about it. Maybe a good idea could be installing a socket for the Famicom CPU, that way you could plug in and out CPUs easily without soldering.
Quote from: Arnold101 on December 11, 2007, 10:47:01 pm
i've tried with the screwdriver on the tv audio connector, the external side, it don't fit inside it, and it light up.
i've tested on samsung lcd and no light.
Careful! The TV is leaking current! That is a dangerous situation, it could damage equipment connected to it, or even worse, give you a shock. Touching the AV connector is like touching one of the wires in a wall plug! Imagine doing that to your Famicom! Sheer torture! :o
Try plugging the TV backwards and see if the problem goes away (the light doesn't light anymore).
Quote from: Arnold101 on December 11, 2007, 10:47:01 pm
if i find the cpu how i desolder it? i don't think i can do it :-X
If unsure, read some tutorials on the Internet about how to solder, and practice with some junk circuit boards, taking components out and stuff. In a nutshell, you need some desoldering braid. You apply fresh solder to all of the CPU pins (to dislodge the old machine solder), then put the braid over it and apply the iron on top. The braid will absorb the solder in the hole, leaving the pin free for removal. You cut the used piece of braid and throw it away, then do it for the remaining pins until the CPU is easily removable. You can also do it with a desoldering pump (also called solder sucker).
If you don't feel like you can do it well, you can always go to some TV repair shop and they'll be happy to desolder it for you for a couple of bucks.
thanks for all the info ;)
for the tv i've touched connectors and i not feel current ??? i'll try to disconnect the power as you said. damn tv >:(
anyway i need info on pal cpu, to be sure that is ok for famicom, if not i don't know where find ntsc cpu
i've find only this about http://nesdevwiki.org/wiki/index.php/NES_CPU
i tried the screwdriver on samsung home theater HTDS900 dts 5.1 and it light up. i think it's normal
No it's not normal. It's dangerous (for the equipment and for you).
you think i have problems at my home electrical system? it's very old :-X
but on samsung lcd don't to this, maybe has an internal protection?
another doubt: i have connected the gnd of video and audio circuit, led and rca jack all together on the same gnd point of famicom. it's ok?
Quote from: Arnold101 on December 12, 2007, 07:26:08 pm
you think i have problems at my home electrical system? it's very old :-X
but on samsung lcd don't to this, maybe has an internal protection?
Maybe your house's plugs are lacking or have a defective ground connection. Check that. Meanwhile try reversing the plugs of the devices and see if the problem goes away (no light). That is assuming your country's plugs can be plugged in either way, for example US plugs are polarized (a prong is wider than the other) so they can only be plugged in one orientation. Here the plugs can be plugged either way, so if I see some appliance leaking current, I just flip the plug and the problem usually goes away. Try that.
The LCD doesn't have an internal protection, it's just working correctly, unlike the other things :P.
Quote from: Arnold101 on December 12, 2007, 07:26:08 pm
another doubt: i have connected the gnd of video and audio circuit, led and rca jack all together on the same gnd point of famicom. it's ok?
Yeah, actually that's how you do it ;).
Another thing: I checked the NESDev Wiki link you put before, very good info! ;D
It says that the only difference between the PAL and NTSC CPU is the clock speed and divider.
NTSC CPU uses a 21.477272 MHz clock signal, which gets divided by 12 internally to get 1.79 MHz
PAL CPU uses a 26.601712 MHz clock signal, which gets divided by 16 internally to get 1.66 MHz
If you plug a PAL CPU into your Famicom it will get the 21.477272 MHz signal, divide it by 16 and get 1.34 MHz
That's actually underclocking the CPU (running slower). The audio will have a lower pitch and you'll notice more slowdown in games due to the reduced processor speed.
I have an idea: Like on my Overclocked NES thread, find a crystal clock generator with the right frequency to make the CPU work at the normal 1.79MHz for a NTSC Famicom:
Doing the math: 1,789MHz (NTSC clock speed) x 16 (PAL clock divider) = 28.636362 MHz
That's the frequency you need ! If you can get a crystal clock generator with that frequency (or a close one) you can make the PAL CPU run at NTSC speed, and it will work perfectly! ;D. You bend the CLK pin on the CPU before installing it into the Famicom (so it doesn't take the original clock signal) and then you feed your own 28.6 MHz clock signal into the pin. That's all ;).
great your thread (http://www.famicomworld.com/forum/index.php?topic=1195.0) ;D
on cpu speed selector goes cable from cpu pin cutted, from original clock green cable (where it start?), and from crystal clock generator, right?
and if i want the clock of the overclocked ntsc nes on a pal cpu, can be done or not?
can you link a photo of a crystal clock generator? i have not understand what is from that photo, and if i want to buy it, electric shop have it?
(not online shop) thanks ;)
I was replying to your post when my computer BSODed by overheating!!! >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( I lost everything I wrote !!! >:( >:( >:( >:( Man I was so angry.... well I'll try again.
Quote from: Arnold101 on December 12, 2007, 09:08:59 pm
great your thread (http://www.famicomworld.com/forum/index.php?topic=1195.0) ;D
on cpu speed selector goes cable from cpu pin cutted, from original clock green cable (where it start?), and from crystal clock generator, right?
Right ;). I get the original clock from the PPU clock pin.
Quote from: Arnold101 on December 12, 2007, 09:08:59 pm
and if i want the clock of the overclocked ntsc nes on a pal cpu, can be done or not?
Yes, it can be done, you just have to compensate for the PAL clock divider (divide by 16 instead of by 12 :P).
Quote from: Arnold101 on December 12, 2007, 09:08:59 pm
can you link a photo of a crystal clock generator? i have not understand what is from that photo, and if i want to buy it, electric shop have it?
(not online shop) thanks ;)
Here you go! (this was prepared for my coming AV Famicom Overclocking thread)
High resolution picture of the various types of crystal clock generators (http://usuarios.lycos.es/dogbert/img/DSCN7325b.jpg) (248KB JPG).
There you can see the most common packages. Any of them will do, they're all the same in functionality, just the package varies, but the metal can ones are easier to solder wires to them. The number you see in them is the frequency in MHz, so 30.0000 is 30 MHz.
Any decent electronics shop carries them in a wide variety of frequencies.
Quote
can you link a photo of a crystal clock generator? i have not understand what is from that photo, and if i want to buy it, electric shop have it?
(not online shop) thanks ;)
Here you go! (this was prepared for my coming AV Famicom Overclocking thread)
High resolution picture of the various types of crystal clock generators (http://usuarios.lycos.es/dogbert/img/DSCN7325b.jpg) (248KB JPG).
There you can see the most common packages. Any of them will do, they're all the same in functionality, just the package varies, but the metal can ones are easier to solder wires to them. The number you see in them is the frequency in MHz, so 30.0000 is 30 MHz.
Any decent electronics shop carries them in a wide variety of frequencies.
thanks ;) so i have to buy a 28.6 or 29 mhz one. if i find only a 30 one it will change the sound? or is a little difference (normal sound)? (1,875 mhz)
Quote
great your thread (http://www.famicomworld.com/forum/index.php?topic=1195.0) ;D
on cpu speed selector goes cable from cpu pin cutted, from original clock green cable (where it start?), and from crystal clock generator, right?
Right ;). I get the original clock from the PPU clock pin.
where is this pin on ppu? :) and where is the clock pin of the cpu?
great idea the clock fix for pal cpu ;D
Quote from: Arnold101 on December 13, 2007, 04:02:42 am
thanks ;) so i have to buy a 28.6 or 29 mhz one. if i find only a 30 one it will change the sound? or is a little difference (normal sound)? (1,875 mhz)
Yup. Yeah a 30MHz one will work, the sound difference will be minuscule. You can also get them from old ISA computer motherboards, cards and such.
Quote from: Arnold101 on December 13, 2007, 04:02:42 am
where is this pin on ppu? :) and where is the clock pin of the cpu?
great idea the clock fix for pal cpu ;D
CPU Clock pin is pin 29
PPU Clock pin is pin 18
http://nesdev.parodius.com/2A03_pinout.txt
http://nesdev.parodius.com/nes_ppu.txt
Hope that helps! ;)
Quote from: 133MHz on December 13, 2007, 01:06:55 pm
Quote from: Arnold101 on December 13, 2007, 04:02:42 am
thanks ;) so i have to buy a 28.6 or 29 mhz one. if i find only a 30 one it will change the sound? or is a little difference (normal sound)? (1,875 mhz)
Yup. Yeah a 30MHz one will work, the sound difference will be minuscule. You can also get them from old ISA computer motherboards, cards and such.
Quote from: Arnold101 on December 13, 2007, 04:02:42 am
where is this pin on ppu? :) and where is the clock pin of the cpu?
great idea the clock fix for pal cpu ;D
CPU Clock pin is pin 29
PPU Clock pin is pin 18
http://nesdev.parodius.com/2A03_pinout.txt
http://nesdev.parodius.com/nes_ppu.txt
Hope that helps! ;)
minuscule but hearable the difference to the original or not with the 30 one?
thanks for the pins ;)
all the crystal clock have the 3 pin that i need? or 4? how i have to connect them to 5v, ground and output in the correct order?
Quoteminuscule but hearable the difference to the original or not with the 30 one?
Minuscule? Yes. Hearable? I think it depends on the person listening :P.
Quoteall the crystal clock have the 3 pin that i need? or 4? how i have to connect correctly to them?
They have four pins, but only three are used. The one near the dot on the package is unused.
+5V in
|
\/
___________
| XTAL OSC | <--- Clock out
| 28.636362 |
\ o CHINA | <--- Ground
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
/\
|
Unused
perfect ;D
one more thing 133mhz, i do not want the switch, so i need to connect clock out from crystal generator to clock pin of the cpu cutted and nothing more right? ;)
Yes, and you don't even need to cut the clock trace on the board. Just bend the clock pin outwards before installing the new CPU and then solder directly to the pin ;).
ok :)
QuoteJust bend the clock pin outwards before installing the new CPU
yeah, i mean that ;D
i'll take the power from the power point( ;D) of the board, the same of the av mod, correct?
Yup.
i've finded the pal cpu from a nes and tomorrow i have to buy the crystal clock generator.
on ebay i've see one like this
(http://i22.ebayimg.com/06/i/000/a0/ac/a7e4_2.JPG)
is the same? it have only 2 pin instead of 4.
if my local shop have only this of 2 pin are good or not? and how must be connected? (in fact i've see on old pc cards and they are all 2 pin version)
it's different from this? http://www.aelcrystals.co.uk/leaded-oscillators.shtml
thanks :)
Quote from: Arnold101 on December 19, 2007, 01:44:53 pm
i've finded the pal cpu from a nes and tomorrow i have to buy the crystal clock generator.
on ebay i've see one like this
(http://i22.ebayimg.com/06/i/000/a0/ac/a7e4_2.JPG)
is the same? it have only 2 pin instead of 4.
if my local shop have only this of 2 pin are good or not? and how must be connected? (in fact i've see on old pc cards and they are all 2 pin version)
No, it's not the same. If you use that you'll need to make a driving circuit for it.
Quote from: Arnold101 on December 19, 2007, 01:44:53 pm
it's different from this? http://www.aelcrystals.co.uk/leaded-oscillators.shtml
thanks :)
Yes, it's different.
ok i'll take the 4 pin one
I would really want to know how to make a 2 player adapter.
A 5200 controller cord would be perfect if it had pin 12.
There must be a way to get those long-ass DB-15 connectors for Famicom use. Maybe replacing the Famicom male port with a more normal one? :P
I think it would be easier to just dremel away the plastic around the expansion port so that the entire plug can fit into the slot, instead of just the tip.
Yeah but that would ruin the Famicom! I think installing a shorter male plug inside the Famicom would be a little less destructive :P
my local shop don't have it >:(
If you can't get 4 pin crystal clock generators you can build a driving circuit for a 2 pin crystal oscillator. Here's the schematic:
(http://usuarios.lycos.es/dogbert/img/drvcircuit.gif)
(Right-clicky and select 'view image' or similar in your browser to show it at full size).
The ---|[]|--- thing is the 2 pin crystal oscillator. I recommend building it on a small piece of stripboard for neatness and to conserve the cleanness of the clock signal.
what are the triangles? the 100N what is? the other 330 are resistors right?
but 28.6 mhz crystal clock generator exist? :(
and if i substitute the internal 2 pin crystal clock of the famicom?
edit: i have 2 crystal by 14.3 mhz (2 pin model) and 14.3 x 2= 28.6 i can connect together? :hope:
Quote from: Arnold101 on December 22, 2007, 11:25:44 am
what are the triangles?
The triangles are the NOT gates of the 74LS04 TTL chip.
Quote from: Arnold101 on December 22, 2007, 11:25:44 am
the 100N what is?
A 100nF (nanofarad) ceramic capacitor (non-polarized).
Quote from: Arnold101 on December 22, 2007, 11:25:44 am
the other 330 are resistors right?
Yeah. 330 ohm.
Quote from: Arnold101 on December 22, 2007, 11:25:44 am
but 28.6 mhz crystal clock generator exist? :(
Yeah, I have a lot of weird-ass values in my parts bin.
Quote from: Arnold101 on December 22, 2007, 11:25:44 am
and if i substitute the internal crystal clock of the famicom? is a 21.477 mhz one
You'll mess up the video output since the PPU takes the clock from there.
Quote from: Arnold101 on December 22, 2007, 11:25:44 am
edit: i have 2 crystal by 14.3 mhz (2 pin model) and 14.3 x 2= 28.6 i can connect together? :hope:
None that I know of.
thanks ;)
understand, i have to take only a 4 pin model, so you have a 28.6 crystal? i hope to find one here :(
you can find one on web? i've tried but no result
With 4 pin crystals is easier since you don't need to build external circuits, but if 2 pin is the only you can get, then building the circuit doesn't sound like a bad idea at all.
Sorry man, checked my oscillators bin and the closest values I've got are 25.1750MHz and 31.3344MHz. But I can attest to their existence, I once had one or two lying around (they can be damaged very easily by too much heat from soldering! personal experience, be careful!).
Maybe if you don't get a close value, you could get away with a higher frequency crystal and binary/decimal frequency division using decade or binary counters.
I know people in the USA can get them very easily through distributors such as DigiKey or MCM Electronics, but I don't know about the rest of the world ^^U. Maybe somebody here in the US could get some and send them to you ;).
Quote from: 133MHz on December 22, 2007, 11:12:07 pm
Maybe if you don't get a close value, you could get away with a higher frequency crystal and binary/decimal frequency division using decade or binary counters.
what is this? difficult to do?
i have a 56 mhz one
MCM Electronics don't have on their site
and if i buy a 30mhz one? http://www.webtronic.it/pages/ITA/prodotto.asp?ProdottoID=3642
i think are more easy to find at local shop.
they cost 10 dollars? :o
ps. even a megadrive motorola m68000 is easily damageble from soldering? (made by tv repair shop that install modchip on ps1-ps2 not by me)
and the nes cpu? is the same?
Quote from: Arnold101 on December 23, 2007, 02:49:26 am
Quote from: 133MHz on December 22, 2007, 11:12:07 pm
Maybe if you don't get a close value, you could get away with a higher frequency crystal and binary/decimal frequency division using decade or binary counters.
what is this? difficult to do?
i have a 56 mhz one
56 MHz / 2 = 28 MHz . You can feed the clock output of that oscillator to a flip-flop or a binary counter to divide the frequency by 2.
For more information about these kinds of digital electronics, take a look here http://www.kpsec.freeuk.com/counting.htm
Quote from: Arnold101 on December 23, 2007, 02:49:26 am
MCM Electronics don't have on their site
and if i buy a 30mhz one? http://www.webtronic.it/pages/ITA/prodotto.asp?ProdottoID=3642
i think are more easy to find at local shop. they cost 10 dollars? :o
That's too expensive. But if you already have a 56MHz one the best idea is to use it. Buy some inexpensive binary counter IC or high-speed flip-flop and then you get your 28MHz.
Quote from: Arnold101 on December 23, 2007, 02:49:26 am
ps. even a megadrive motorola m68000 is easily damageble from soldering? (made by tv repair shop that install modchip on ps1-ps2 not by me)
and the nes cpu? is the same?
I was referring to the crystal clock generators. I messed up a lot just by heating them a little too much by soldering! But yeah, take care with microprocessors too. Static discharge and leaky soldering irons are bad for them.
ok thanks 133mhz :)
62 replies :o?! This thread spawns at least three different stories in one!: keiffer01's Broken Famicom and the Almighty PPU Swap, Arnold101's Quest for the Overclocking Crystal for his PAL CPU, satoshi_matrix's Quest for the Perfect Genesis Controller and some comments vaguely related with the original topic :D.
I wonder how CkRtech feels about it :P.
;D
(my famicom still wait the cpu change, i have the pal cpu)
lol my "quest for the holy genesis compatible famicon controller"
what an epic tale.
yehaa i have find the clock generator 4 pin 28.6mhz :o in the shops is impossible to find, but a friend as shipped one to me :)
and thursday i will receive the famicom with the pal nes cpu on it and i'll finish the mod with the clock ;)
it's arrived the ntsc-pal converter too ;D (from november >:( )
Nice! ;D
I want to hear more about the PAL booster. Maybe you could write a small review, even for the site ;). I live in a NTSC country and I would like to know how well those things work, besides it would be a very useful guide for other people who want to play the Famicom on PAL TVs.
the ntsc to pal? ok ;D
tomorrow is the big day for my famicom
nada, same as before, gray screen :( maybe is another problem and not the cpu
one question, i have used on famicom a master system adapter, that is 9v 500mA, and only today i have read that famicom need 10v 850mA :-X but with my 9v adpater the famicom worked well. but it can be the adapter the guilty of my broken famicom ??? a console can be damaged with a lower volt on adapter output?
Quote from: Arnold101 on January 18, 2008, 01:29:13 pm
a console can be damaged with a lower volt on adapter output?
No, but reverse polarity can. Anyway a Master System is negative tip just like the Famicom so unless your adapter catastrophically failed or something it is not the culprit.
ok thanks