I wanted to play with my disk system on my big screen tv, but since my tv doesn't recieve at all the Famicom signal, I need to use my NES using a converter and a Game Genie to play with my disk system. So the games work fine, but half the sound effects of the game are missing, since the NES doesn't have the extra sound chip in the pins like the Famicom. So I read on the net on how I could mod my NES to output the extra sound channel, and the say that you would need to solder 2 of the pins on the NES system to the bottom of the expansion port. Did anyone ever do this hack? And what pins would I need to solder to which in order to have the extra sound channel on my NES? Thanks :)
You need to have the audio from the famicom cartridge pin 46 get to the expansion port pin 3. Famicom cartridge pin 46 is audio out. Expansion port pin 3 on a nes is audio in (and mixes with the rest of the audio).
It's not just one wire, because you have to get the audio from the cartridge to the expansion port. On 72 pin nes systems, pins 16-20 on the cartridge are connected to pins 38-42 on the expansion port. Pin 42 connects to 16 and pin 38 connects to 20. Pins 51-55 on the cartridge connect to pins 6-10 on the expansion port. Pin 51 connects to pin 6 and pin 55 connects to pin 10.
Don't use pin 16 on the cartridge since the copynes uses it (not really important if you're never going to use a copynes). Pin 18 will be used as the example here because it's how I was taught and how I do it.
You need to modify your famicom game to nes system adapter to connect famicom cartridge pin 46 to nes cartridge pin 18. You also need a 100 kiloohm resistor and a 1uF or higher non-polarized capacitor. So, solder a wire to pin 46 on the famicom side of your adaptor (usually I do it where the cartridge connector solders onto the circuit board). Solder the resistor to the wire and then solder the capacitor after that. Then solder on another wire and solder the 2nd wire to pin 18 on the nes cartridge side of the adaptor (be careful that you solder above where the cartridge connects inside the nes).
Now you just need to connect expansion pin 40 to expansion pin 3. There is nothing that plugs into the expansion port unfortunately. You can solder in a wire which is the best long term solution. For a while, I used a couple of mini-alligator clips that I cut off the tabs and soldered a wire to.
Of course, this will only work on a front loader since you don't have the expansion port on a top loader.
Ok, That was confusing..Does anyone have a hack NES with a Pic
Sorry Michael, but I'm also confused :-\ If you would have pictures of that hack that would maybe be easier to understand.
It makes sense to me. You basically need to get Famicom cartridge pin 46 to expansion port 3. To do this, you route Famicom pin 46 to NES pin 18 (using wire, resistor, and capacitor) in your cartridge converter. Pin 18 goes to expansion pin 40, which isn't what we want. So, you have to connect expansion pin 40 to expansion pin 3.
So, Famicom cart pin 46 to NES cart pin 18 to NES expansion pin 40 to NES expansion pin 3.
Ok now I understand! :D But how do you know which pin is the first or last on the expansion port and the game converter? And is there a slight chance that it breaks my NES or Disk system? ???
I still need pics, How the Mod was made
Here's a pic of my NASA converter modded for FDS extra sound (click to see full size):
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3255/3123270996_1fe0c3f33a.jpg) (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3255/3123270996_1fe0c3f33a_b.jpg)
Can that work with Akumajou Densetsu ?
Yes. Any game with sound expansion will work perfectly. Remember that you also have to join two expansion port pins together inside your NES.
Hey 133Mhz would it be asking too much if you could show me a picture of exactly which pins we need to join together. I kinda have trouble to know which one exactly is the first and all. :-[
This is the best I can provide at the moment:
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3241/3130947455_4e8628d777_o.jpg)
I've been without a digital camera since I dropped mine and the motorized lens assembly got stuck, and I have zero possibility of getting one this week because of the incoming holidays (everybody's going to use their digicam to take pictures of their Christmas celebrations).
Anyway, just join pin 3 with pin 40. I've written down the pin numbers on the motherboard with a sharpie for ease of comprehension. NES cart slot is at the top of the picture.
Quote from: 133MHz on December 20, 2008, 10:17:43 am
Here's a pic of my NASA converter modded for FDS extra sound (click to see full size):
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3255/3123270996_1fe0c3f33a.jpg) (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3255/3123270996_1fe0c3f33a_b.jpg)
I assume you use this with a top loader?
I used it for a while with a modified NES (soldered the cart connector from a broken Game Genie to its board, making it a backloader) so I could play my FDS while I waited for my Famicom to arrive.
I could use it to play Akumajou Densetsu, Gimmick!, etc on my NES with full sound if I had any of those games.
Quote from: 133MHz on September 12, 2009, 03:40:33 pm
I used it for a while with a modified NES (soldered the cart connector from a broken Game Genie to its board, making it a backloader) so I could play my FDS while I waited for my Famicom to arrive.
I could use it to play Akumajou Densetsu, Gimmick!, etc on my NES with full sound if I had any of those games.
Lol, I gotta see that! back loader, wow, that's pretty awesome. Do you have pics and did you try FDS with that adapter? I remember seeing an NES clone once that looked like an NES, but had a famicom cart slot on the top (next to the back of the system). I assume it had an L-shaped cart connector. You put an NES cart in the system like a normal NES, and Famicom games on the top.
Quote from: RGB_Gamer on September 12, 2009, 03:44:49 pm
Lol, I gotta see that! back loader, wow, that's pretty awesome. Do you have pics and did you try FDS with that adapter?
Here are some pics:
(http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/1153/p1020702s.th.jpg) (http://img216.imageshack.us/i/p1020702s.jpg/)
(http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/2558/p1020717p.th.jpg) (http://img200.imageshack.us/i/p1020717p.jpg/)
As I stated before I've built that contraption with the sole purpose of being able to play my FDS in the time it took my original Famicom to arrive. I've seen the same mod before, with the back of the NES cut off to accomodate for the new cartridge slot, but I didn't bother to do that for something I ended up using only for a few days/weeks (I used a junked NES I got for like $2 at the flea market, not my main system). Once I got my Famicom I never used it again. :P
Quote from: RGB_Gamer on September 12, 2009, 03:44:49 pm
I remember seeing an NES clone once that looked like an NES, but had a famicom cart slot on the top (next to the back of the system). I assume it had an L-shaped cart connector. You put an NES cart in the system like a normal NES, and Famicom games on the top.
I had one of those, but it broke and I scrapped it. Later I got another one with the exact same design, sans top Famicom cart slot.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3619/3336889888_de46afb31b.jpg)
More info and pictures about it on
this (http://www.famicomworld.com/forum/index.php?topic=3015.msg46494#msg46494) thread.
Wanted to thank everyone for the info in this thread -- my friend and I worked on it last weekend and it works perfect. Sucks that I bought an AV Famicom just for CV3 and it doesn't even work right, haha, but now all is well
Does anyone know if connecting pin 3 to pin 40 on the expansion port will work for the PowerPak as well?
No, for the PowerPak you need to connect pin 3 with pin 9.
Quote from: 133MHz on February 18, 2010, 07:34:48 pm
No, for the PowerPak you need to connect pin 3 with pin 9.
Will just a wire work or do I need to use the resistor as outlined in the PowerPak mod? I ask this because someone is sending me their NES to be modded for external audio, and I was curious if the mod here would work with the PowerPak.
Check out my setup. RGB Modded, shiny black, extra sound channel modded, red LED inside, stereo adjustment knobs, HES Unidapter system with Famicom Disk System. I can play USA NES, PAL NES, Famicom, and Famicom Disk System games without ever having to open up the NES cartridge door. Not pictured is my MGD1 which lets me write my own Famicom Disk System games.
I call it, the "Top Loading Toaster"
(http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/1724/toploadingtoasternes.th.jpg) (http://img132.imageshack.us/i/toploadingtoasternes.jpg/)
@2A03: You could use a wire but I presume that the enhanced sound will be too loud and could possibly overpower the NES audio leading to severe distortion. Resistor value isn't very critical, anything from 47k to 100k should work OK (with minute differences in sound volume).
Now that I've been thinking about getting a PowerPak to replace my FDS, I was wondering if it would be possible at all to get external audio on the top loader. I mean, couldn't you just take the audio output from the cart connector and mix it with the audio on the top loader?
I don't think it's possible on the NES 2 because it lacks the expansion port, but I don't know the PCB of the NES 2 well enough to confirm. You can do it on the AV Famicom because it natively supports expansion audio and the toaster NES because it has the hardware to produce it but it just was never used.
Hate to bump an ancient thread, but i had a question.
@133mhz, what pins did you use on that adapter? And what cap/resistor did you use? I assume this will work on the nintendo made famicom to nes adapters.
EDIT: nevermind, reading sometimes is useful...
Don't hate that you bumped it; this is absolutely amazing, and the first time I've seen it! :O
I knew this mod was possible, I just had no idea how EASY it was!!
Easy is a relative term. Doing this is relatively simple for those of us who are handy with hardware, but I would still say an NES modded to run FDS with the expansion sound is something a little beyond most retro gamers.
I hate to bump an old thread, but I am currently in the process of attempting a simular mod to get extra channels to go on the NES.
I have a couple questions: what type of wire do I use (as in what gauge) to bridge the pins 3 and 40? Will I still be able to do the 47k (pins 3 and 9) mod for the powerpak with no consequences?
The reason why I ask this is because I'm going to be getting the japanese version of Rolling Thunder and I'd like to hear the full sound on the NES (along with the Japanese castlevania 3).
This stuff is all so neat, but I have zero experience in it.
If I wanted to enter the mod scene from stone 1, what should I do? Any good tutorials for newbies to get started?
Quote from: nintenthe3rd on February 21, 2011, 05:42:31 pm
I hate to bump an old thread, but I am currently in the process of attempting a simular mod to get extra channels to go on the NES.
I have a couple questions: what type of wire do I use (as in what gauge) to bridge the pins 3 and 40? Will I still be able to do the 47k (pins 3 and 9) mod for the powerpak with no consequences?
The reason why I ask this is because I'm going to be getting the japanese version of Rolling Thunder and I'd like to hear the full sound on the NES (along with the Japanese castlevania 3).
You should have no problem connecting both to pin 3. 3 is an Audio input, which mixes it with the audio from the NES. Since you can't have a powerpak and an FDS hooked up at the same time, one mod shouldn't affect the other.
Quote from: tappybot on February 22, 2011, 03:49:41 am
This stuff is all so neat, but I have zero experience in it.
If I wanted to enter the mod scene from stone 1, what should I do? Any good tutorials for newbies to get started?
I'm sure one of the members have written or read a good tutorial for newbs at one time, although I haven't.
One simple task you will probably learn to do is to "tin" your wires. This simply means coating the wire with solder before you actually solder it to wherever. From there, all you have to do is touch the two things you are soldering, and place your soldering iron on the back of the unsoldered piece, which will melt the solder on the other, and join the two metals. I always forget this, and it gets very annoying when solder doesn't do what it's supposed to do.
I'm sure other members have other helpful newbie tips, this is just the most helpful for me.
I got all the materials needed, though I'm wondering about the capacitor, will the type (electrolytic capacitor) effect anything? Or will the converter mod do just fine with any capacitor just as long as its 4.7uf?
Once again, thank you for all your help.
This is the only 1uF non-polarized capacitor that I could get, this thing is huge!!, Can I put the filter inside the NES instead of the 60 to72 pin converter???
(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac8/chinitosoccer/100_3435.jpg)
Wow that IS one huge capacitor :) You can put it inside your nes, just connect the pins needed inside of your converter and then trace that NES pin inside your NES, cut it and insert the components there.
Quote from: jpx72 on May 26, 2011, 08:53:06 am
cut it and insert the components there.
"Cut it"?? do that means that I need to cut traces on the NES?? I thought I only need to join pins 3 and 40 ???
Edit: I decided to go ahead and here is the result, a proof of my poor soldering skills...
(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac8/chinitosoccer/100_3436.jpg)
I don't know if I placed the ressitor and the capacitor in correct order, the leg coming from the 1uF capacitor goes to the pin3 on the exp. port while the 100k resistor goes to pin 40.
cartridge adapter:
(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac8/chinitosoccer/100_3440.jpg)
Well sorry, no you don't need to cut it when you solder it directly to the exp port pin 3, I was not thinking ahead (read: "i was stupid"), I was thinking about cutting the trace of pin 54 on the cartridge port. But I realized now that the pin 54 trace goes nowhere else than to pin 40 of the exp port. So NO cutting.
You should have component order right...
And? Does it work?
I did a split channel + expansion audio mod on my NES very recently and this thread helped, thanks!
One thing I had a big problem with was soldering the jumper on the gyromite cart. Maybe this should be obvious for people that aren't noob like me, but here's a tip I didn't find anywhere - scratch off more of the light green coating and expose more metal above the pins on the converter you are trying to solder to. You can see what I mean in this picture, where I illustrated on another pin. As you can see I ruined some of my stuff desperately trying to figure out the solution.
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t46/Zoast/DSCN1093-1.gif)
Also, if you are splitting up the audio signals to different jacks (ie squares, tri+noise, expansion), you use pin 40 from the expansion port pins to get that expansion audio (at least for the akumajou densetsu cart and gyromite converter).
Lastly, I believe (but not 100%) that you need to ground the jacks separately, not just hook one up and tie them all to that.
oh lord that poor converter....
Here's a tip...put electrical tape over the pins before adding solder. It'll make a nice clean solder job that won't spread over the entire pin:
(http://imgboot.com/images/Drakon/realthing.jpg)
Also use an exacto knife to scrape off the green masking you want to add solder to and be careful that there's still some masking between the scraped area and the pin otherwise the solder will spread over the entire pin. The electrical tape is just an added precaution that you should always use. Think of the electrical tape as temporary masking that works the same way as that green stuff that covers the top of the pins. Of course you want to rub over the electrical tape many times to ensure it's completely flush against the areas you don't want solder to spread to.
I think I get the jist of this mod, but I have three questions that I'm not understanding:
- Are there any adverse affects that could happen by doing this mod? Not able to play some US games?
- What size wire do I need?
- What size resistor?
- What type of capacitor?
I snapped off my lock-out pin awhile ago ("This is for all those years of watching blicking title screens!!"), so that's the closest I've come to modding. This mod looks like something I could do but also scary! I'd hate to damage my NES; I've had it for over 20 years.
EDIT:
I've found the following; do these sound right?
Resistor: 100k ohm
Capacitor: 4.7uF
Does the wire gauge not matter because of the resistor?
wire gauge does not matter. choose one, you have, which easy to work with. bonus, if wire have more heat resistant insulation.
The only real way to play FDS on an NES is with an HES Unidapter. I have one, and if you look at my avatar, you can see what it looks like
I'm having trouble finding an capacitor that will fit inside the Honeybee. i found a 1uf non-polarized at Radioshack, but it was just slightly too big. I suppose I could cut a small hole in the Honeybee's case, but that wouldn't look very clean.
Will this work if the capacitor and resistor are inside the system between expansion pins 40 and 3 instead? I know someone posted in this tread doing that, but never said it if actually worked.
Quote from: scribblemacher on July 28, 2012, 06:17:30 pm
I'm having trouble finding an capacitor that will fit inside the Honeybee. i found a 1uf non-polarized at Radioshack, but it was just slightly too big. I suppose I could cut a small hole in the Honeybee's case, but that wouldn't look very clean.
Will this work if the capacitor and resistor are inside the system between expansion pins 40 and 3 instead? I know someone posted in this tread doing that, but never said it if actually worked.
SMD capacitors use, Luke :)
I attempted this today with the help of my neighbor. Everything looks fine and games still work, but I'm not getting the extra sound channel when testing with Gimmick!
I used a 1uF non-polarized capacitor. Is that the correct size?
Edit: After reviewing our work, it looks like we connected Famicom pin 46 to the capacitor to the resistor to pin 18. The pictures here show it going from pin 46 -> resistor -> capacitor -> pin 18 instead. Does the capacitor-resistor order matter?
Please be more specific, which things you plugging and where, if you want someones help
Quote from: 80sFREAK on July 31, 2012, 07:28:57 pm
Please be more specific, which things you plugging and where, if you want someones help
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7124/7688558752_1bbe7a5d60.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/34229387@N07/7688558752/)
IMG_0039 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/34229387@N07/7688558752/) by dagoss (http://www.flickr.com/people/34229387@N07/), on Flickr
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8010/7688559352_0a01287ea8.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/34229387@N07/7688559352/)
IMG_0038 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/34229387@N07/7688559352/) by dagoss (http://www.flickr.com/people/34229387@N07/), on Flickr
That's the inside, It's a little hard to see. Basically, we connected a wire to Famicon pin 46 in the adaptor, then connected that wire to a 1uF capacitor. We attached that capacitor to a a 100k ohm resistor, which attached to a wire, then attached to NES pin 18.
So pin 46 to capacitor to resistor to pin 18. The photos on the first page of this thread have the order of the capacitor and resistor reversed.
keep in mind - there is no sound pin on NES slot inside NES, so you are on the half way
Quote from: 80sFREAK on July 31, 2012, 10:44:07 pm
keep in mind - there is no sound pin on NES slot inside NES, so you are on the half way
I'm not sure what you are saying. In the second picture, I connected pin 48 to pin 3 on the expansion slot. Is there another step I'm supposed to follow?
Do the order of the resistor and capacitor matter?
No matter for order, but pins.
QuoteSo pin 46 to capacitor to resistor to pin 18.
QuoteI connected pin 48 to pin 3 on the expansion slot.
What about
pin 18 inside NES on cart slot?
Quote from: 80sFREAK on August 01, 2012, 05:59:47 am
What about pin 18 inside NES on cart slot?
Pin 18 on the NES cart slot goes to one of the pins on the expansion port on the bottom of the NES. A different pin on the expansion port allows for audio input, which is why you have to bridge those two pins in the expansion port. So, he is effectively modifying pin 18 on the cart slot by modifying the expansion port on the bottom.
Quote from: UglyJoe on August 01, 2012, 06:08:48 am
Quote from: 80sFREAK on August 01, 2012, 05:59:47 am
What about pin 18 inside NES on cart slot?
Pin 18 on the NES cart slot goes to one of the pins on the expansion port on the bottom of the NES. A different pin on the expansion port allows for audio input, which is why you have to bridge those two pins in the expansion port. So, he is effectively modifying pin 18 on the cart slot by modifying the expansion port on the bottom.
That's good to know. So it looks like I got the pins inside the NES right. It's either a matter of
- One of the soldering joints isn't adequate
- There's a fault somewhere (the exposed ends of those wires are kind of big--I put in some electrical tape though)
- My copy of Gimmick! is broke and that's why I'm getting poor sound :o
- I connected the wrong pins inside the Honeybee (Pin 18 is definately correct as that pin is labeled, pin 46 wouldn't be on the other side of the covertor, would it?)
- I have the resistor and the capacitor in the wrong order (still not sure if the order matters)
What could I be missing here?
2 UglyJoe ok.
2 scribblemacher i don't like idea to use 100kOhm resistor. What is the other parts involved? I can see 2 150 Ohm resistors and ceramic capacitor.
Also it is not 100kOhm, but most likely 1kOhm or 10kOhm.
If you have any audioamplifier, you can check, what's going on pin46 Famicom side
Ummm, why not to solder parts without extra wires?
Quote from: 80sFREAK on August 01, 2012, 06:25:35 am
2 UglyJoe ok.
2 scribblemacher i don't like idea to use 100kOhm resistor. What is the other parts involved? I can see 2 150 Ohm resistors and ceramic capacitor.
Also it is not 100kOhm, but most likely 1kOhm or 10kOhm.
If you have any audioamplifier, you can check, what's going on pin46 Famicom side
Ummm, why not to solder parts without extra wires?
Sorry, the resistor is 1kOhm, not 100kOhm.
The capacitor is 1uF non-polraized with 50 volt maximum and a tolerance of 20%.
I used the extra wires instead of soldering the components directly because that is the directions on the first page of this forum topic. I don't know anything, so I wanted to follow those direction exactly.
Quote from: 133MHz on December 20, 2008, 10:17:43 am
Here's a pic of my NASA converter modded for FDS extra sound (click to see full size):
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3255/3123270996_1fe0c3f33a.jpg) (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3255/3123270996_1fe0c3f33a_b.jpg)
This one? Yours looks a bit messy, but correct. It's better to check with audio amplifier pin46 of Famicom cart. By the way is your Gimmick real thing?
Quote from: 80sFREAK on August 01, 2012, 04:28:50 pm
This one? Yours looks a bit messy, but correct. It's better to check with audio amplifier pin46 of Famicom cart. By the way is your Gimmick real thing?
I tested it last night and all the soldering seems fine. However, electricity didn't seem to pass through the capacitor. My neighbor works for an aerospace firm and he's going to take it to work to have an engineer look at it. Talk about overkill!
I'm not sure. Take a look. The label is kind of glossy compared to the other 3 Famicom games I own...
EDIT:
I'm pretty sure it's a pirate. I didn't notice before, but the game starts with 30 lives!
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8142/7697252460_4e9acd10fb.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/34229387@N07/7697252460/)
IMG_0001 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/34229387@N07/7697252460/) by dagoss (http://www.flickr.com/people/34229387@N07/), on Flickr
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7135/7697251736_28aa13c9a8.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/34229387@N07/7697251736/)
IMG_0002 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/34229387@N07/7697251736/) by dagoss (http://www.flickr.com/people/34229387@N07/), on Flickr
PipeV is a pirate Gimmick, has no extra sound chip inside so no extra sound! WAAAA
Well that explains that! I'll have to get a hold of an actual cart with an extra sound chip to test this.
Though the sound in this pirate cart is awful to the point that it is not playable. It just sounds so bad!
I'm trying to get an NES 3 system made. I read an article that said the EXP port was made because Nintendo Of America had filed a U.S. patent for the FDS, but didn't do it because of pirated FDS disks in Japan. My mod would be an NES/FDS/Famicom triple system. Here's a link to a Facebook post: https://www.facebook.com/FamicomDojo. I'm there under Tony Theriault. I'm getting someone to fix FDS and NES consoles for me. Would you be able to do the NES 3 mod? I know from when I had to swap the FDS drive on my Twin Famicom that there's an internal connection for both the Twin and the RAM adapter's wire plug. It probably wouldn't be that hard to not only mod the sound on the NES to match, but to add the internal FDS connection. If you could and would do it, how much would you charge for the mod? I'd buy the Famicom pin slot myself. They're easy enough to get on eBay.
Quote from: 2A03 on April 02, 2010, 01:00:06 am
Now that I've been thinking about getting a PowerPak to replace my FDS, I was wondering if it would be possible at all to get external audio on the top loader. I mean, couldn't you just take the audio output from the cart connector and mix it with the audio on the top loader?
Anyone experiemented with this?
I found this mod, which basically puts an audio wire in the adapter or (repro) cart itself, and mixes the audio directly with the output from the NES, so it goes around the expansion port (which is missing from the Top Loader)
http://callanbrown.com/index.php/castlevania-iii-with-full-famicom-audio
It uses pin 45 ("Audio from 2A03") instead of 46 ("Audio to RF") though - not sure what the difference is, and whether it would work with FDS audio too?
I was thinking a hybrid mod should be possible, so instead of using an external cable, I'd wire famicom pin 45 or 46 to the unused(?) pin 18 on the NES side inside the adapter, as with the mod described in this thread - and then I'd tap into pin 18 in the connector inside the console itself, and mix the audio with the regular audio there, as described in the link above.
This of course assumes we have also AV or RGB modded our top loader, so the RF modulator isn't relevant. No one likes that one anyway. :P