For those who don't know, the Famicom Family BASIC keyboard originally came with a massive, full-color manuel which details every nook and cranny of the software. Now that Scorp.ius has expressed interest in a possible translation I've realized that I took have interested in a translation for a while now.
I felt it might be time to see if there's intrist here to get this project off the ground. I have a copy of the manuel in resonablly good condition and am looking for someone who can image edit scans of each page into readable, followable English. The pages and font are large so editing should be a concern. The manuel makes use of all forms of Japanese script as well as a few english words. Prospective translators should be well versed in reading and reguritating the Japanese into English. Though not required, a working knowledge of how BASIC functions could be useful as many pages have what looks like BASIC lessons written in Japanese.
I'm very excited for a prospect of seeing an English translation so I can finally figure out how to use the Family BASIC, but before I get ahead of myself, I just want to ensure there IS intrist in this. Without you, there can be no project. The manuel comes in at 113 pages, making this is pretty massive undertaking. If you guys are with me and someone (or a group) is willing to hammer out English versions of each page, then I'll get scanning right away.
ha! great thread :D ;D :D
i have posted this project in a german board and there someone said it could be possible to scan the manual and use some OCR software that converts the grafik into text. and then to use a babelfish software to translate the japanese into english
it would be very buggy translation of course - but something to start with perhaps
Quote from: Scorp.ius on March 07, 2008, 02:16:14 am
and then to use a babelfish software to translate the japanese into english
No no no :o
I would really urge against doing that. Babelfish is really, really bad when it comes to large portions of text.
How about some test scans of several pages to see how difficult it is or how much text there is?
i dont think that those OCRs result in a perfect translation ;) but perhaps it is good enough to do a "translation" of the translation
here is such a software, that is able to read japanese: click (http://www.irislink.com/c2-559-225/Readiris-pro-11-Asian-Edition-OCR-Software.aspx?adwp=GGS-RI-JAP&gclid=CJD94v6X-5ECFQcguwod7zeqow)
It's also $199 :(
I don't think OCR would be necessary. If someone is willing to translate this thing, then they probably know enough Japanese to know how to use a dictionary to look up any kanji they don't recognize.
yes this would be better ;)
that's a good idea manuel. I'll post a few test pages to see what you (or anyone else) can make of it.
i make a promise:
if someone translates it into english i will translate it to german ;)
Just a thought:
It wouldn't really be necessary to translate the whole manual. BASIC languages are all pretty similar. Most of the book will probably be teaching you how to use simple BASIC commands (sort of like a crash-course in programming). There are plenty of guides like that out there already. There's no real need to translate those parts of the manual.
The important parts to translate would involve how to setup/use the hardware (saving/loading and all that) and how to use the few commands that are specific to Family BASIC (such as the commands for displaying and animating a sprite).
Quote from: UglyJoe on March 07, 2008, 11:14:28 am
Just a thought:
It wouldn't really be necessary to translate the whole manual. BASIC languages are all pretty similar. Most of the book will probably be teaching you how to use simple BASIC commands (sort of like a crash-course in programming). There are plenty of guides like that out there already. There's no real need to translate those parts of the manual.
The important parts to translate would involve how to setup/use the hardware (saving/loading and all that) and how to use the few commands that are specific to Family BASIC (such as the commands for displaying and animating a sprite).
100% correct. From what I could tell on my manual, most of the stuff is basic programming stuff that works the same no matter what language it is.
ok, i think it will be good to have a 100% scanned manual that is translated in parts.
how much of the manual describes the usage of the program, sprite maker and such?
something as big as that is generally never done for free.
plus it's not like the information in this manual is not obtainable in english.
get a basic for dummies guide or something
I too would much prefer to have the entire guide translated. I picked up a BASIC guide but its confusing and I dont see a lot of it applying to the Family BASIC.
Quote from: satoshi_matrix on March 08, 2008, 06:06:09 pm
I too would much prefer to have the entire guide translated. I picked up a BASIC guide but its confusing and I dont see a lot of it applying to the Family BASIC.
I would recommend getting a version of BASIC for your PC (QBasic is what I learned) and then follow a tutorial for that version of BASIC. Once you've learned that one, you'll understand what FamicomJL and myself are talking about.
propably a c64 basic version will fit better, cos its from 83 and all the things with linenumbers , with editing the code, and listing the code is quite similar to the famicom version since both hardwares had similar restrictions in grafiks (only 40 letters in a line) and ram (no scrolling up and down in the code) etc.
in "modern" basisc there are no linenumbers anymore, you can edit the code more like a texteditor with a mouse more than 40 letters in a line and everything.
so for example an english online book about the c64 basic is HERE (http://www.lemon64.com/manual/)
chapter 4.4. EDITING TIPS will be quite helpfull ;)
but the syntax could be different in both versions in some cases!
btw: do you scan some example pages?
oh cmon ;) tell me this project is not dead allready :P
Sorry just.......lack time.
Well sorry to necropost and thread hijack but I don't want to keep making new topics. Anyway when you type out the program on the Family BASIC, does it come up in English or Japanese?
Quote from: KEVMAN569 on April 05, 2008, 07:51:31 am
Well sorry to necropost and thread hijack but I don't want to keep making new topics. Anyway when you type out the program on the Family BASIC, does it come up in English or Japanese?
The syntax is in English. The keyboard has a kana lock key that lets you switch between English and Katakana, though (so you can use katakana in strings).
Quote from: KEVMAN569 on April 05, 2008, 07:51:31 am
sorry to necropost and thread hijack
From the forum rules:
Quote from: FamicomJL on August 01, 2006, 08:35:01 pm
1. Post digging is allowed and recommended, as a lot of the good topics came around when a lot of our members hadn't yet joined. Use the SEARCH feature!
So don't worry dude ;).
Quote from: UglyJoe on April 05, 2008, 01:33:16 pm
Quote from: KEVMAN569 on April 05, 2008, 07:51:31 am
Well sorry to necropost and thread hijack but I don't want to keep making new topics. Anyway when you type out the program on the Family BASIC, does it come up in English or Japanese?
The syntax is in English. The keyboard has a kana lock key that lets you switch between English and Katakana, though (so you can use katakana in strings).
Ah good so all I need to find is a translated manual.
Quote from: KEVMAN569 on April 05, 2008, 08:22:23 pm
Ah good so all I need to find is a translated manual.
(looks at the topic's title) ::)
Still no test scans? 2 pages? 3 maybe?
I'm sorry for the deplays. I've been meaning to scan the pages in for weeks now but the first thing I need to do is give my scanner a good cleaning. It's a flatbed Cannon scanner I bought a few years back. Any tips to clean it would be appricated.
Here are some pages from the manual I just scanned. I wasn't sure what format to save them as so I saved as .jpegs.
(http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj287/pingaloquita/1.jpg)
(http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj287/pingaloquita/2.jpg)
(http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj287/pingaloquita/3.jpg)
(http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj287/pingaloquita/4.jpg)
(http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj287/pingaloquita/5.jpg)
(http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj287/pingaloquita/6.jpg)
I just got a ROm of this. Anyone know how to access the built-in sprites?
Quote from: KEVMAN569 on April 07, 2008, 06:36:13 pm
I just got a ROm of this. Anyone know how to access the built-in sprites?
10 SPRITEON
11 CGSET 1,1
13 J=0
17 FOR I=0 TO 7
20 DEFMOVE(I)=SPRITE(I+J,3,2,120,0,0)
25 POSITION I,0,((I+1)*18+40)
30 MOVE(I)
32 NEXT
33 CLS
34 J=J+8
35 IF (XPOS(0) = 240 AND J=8) THEN GOTO 17
36 IF (J=16) THEN GOTO 38
37 GOTO 35
38 END
RUN
10 turns them on; 11 picks a palette; 20 defines a move, picks which sprite to use, an animation, animation speed, animation length (how far to walk), and two other things I haven't figured out); 25 places the sprite into its starting position; 30 tells it to start moving. The rest is simple programming logic.
edit:
And here's one that lets you walk around. Use the D-pad to move around and press a button to change the sprite.
5 SPRITEON
6 X=50
7 Y=50
10 D=0
11 N=0
12 B=0
13 C=0
14 E=0
17 '
20 DEFMOVE(0)=SPRITE(E,D,2,100,0)
30 POSITION 0,X,Y
40 MOVE 0
45 '
50 M=STICK(0)
60 IF M<>N THEN GOTO 69
62 B=STRIG(0)
63 IF B<>C THEN GOTO 85
65 GOTO 50
67 '
69 N=M
70 D=-1*(M=8)-2*(M=9)-3*(M=1)-4*(M=5)-5*(M=4)-6*(M=6)-7*(M=2)-8*(M=10)
71 X=XPOS(0)
72 Y=YPOS(0)
80 GOTO 20
82 '
85 C=B
87 E=(E-(C=0))MOD16
89 GOTO 71
I think I've finally just about gotten the sprite movement commands figured out ;D
Thanks ericj.
That manual looks very interesting. The Mario illustration is hilarious. ;D
I'll add mine soon, and higher res then these ones. But thanks for the headstart!
Quote from: satoshi_matrix on April 09, 2008, 11:33:58 am
I'll add mine soon, and higher res then these ones. But thanks for the headstart!
If possible, could you scan the pages that deal with the SPRITE, DEF MOVE, MOVE, and POSITION commands?
There seem to be some introductional books and even comics on Family Basic.
Interesting.
http://page5.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/e74525794 (http://page5.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/e74525794)
http://page13.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/r45577710 (http://page13.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/r45577710)
I need to move to Japan FAST. :D
Anyone have any ideas how this project 's gonna get started?
If I knew Japanese and I'd be all over it :-\
First all pages would have to be scanned and put up somewhere for download. ::)
I know Japanese and I'm all for it, but I have a job you know, and not so much time to put towards such a big project, especially with my upcoming move to Japan and my son deserves some of my time, too.
Plus, I'm a freelance translator and usually take money for translations. ;) Something like translating a big manual of over 100 pages just for the sake of it has a very low priority for me now. :)
If people (mostly JC :D) ask me for small translations (http://www.famicomworld.com/Shrines/Holy_Grails_Nakayama_Miho_no_Tokimeki_High_School.htm) for the homepage or something, that's no problem, it's mostly over in 5 minutes.
Quoteand put up somewhere for download.
i have some webspace so i could upload the file for download ;)
Geez, I wish I knew more Japanese. I would be all over this translation, but I am only at an intermediate level with knowledge of about 1000 Kanji. I need to study more.
If you know how to search unknown kanji (which I'm sure you do), your knowledge should be enough already to translate this manual. It isn't that hard. :)
Oh really? I've never actually taken on a translation project before, but I'm sure I could understand most of it. That doesn't mean I am going to do it though, I am WAY too busy with school. (Yeah that's right school's over and yet I still have homework!)
Oh jeez, guys... I just bought a boxed Family Basic set at PAX in Seattle for 30 smackers and would love to see the manual translated, even if BASIC is BASIC is BASIC. Quite a bit of the guide is understandable enough, even for one with little Japanese reading skills, what with the BASIC syntax being all in English, and the keyboard supporting the full English language. Still though, I'd love to find out if there's any witty 80's Nintendo references tucked away in the pages.
I'll go ahead and scan this in with a goal of having it up by Monday evening.
There's still another day of PAX to get through tomorrow, and a VIC-20 that's calling my name something fierce. :D
D'oh!
Apparently a recent update of the ShareScan software on my copier broke LDAP support, which renders me essentially unable to scan today. I'll be spending the morning on with tech support to get this fixed.
I'll update when I have scans.
any progress?
I haven't heard any news on this for quite some time.
If I remember, Manuel was the one doing it. I'd really like to see this completed some day. I have no doubt that he's been working on it, I just wanted to see what kind of progress has been made.
If anyone knows what's going on with this, I'd like to know... :)
The last I knew, he has scans of the V3 manual. However, the V3 manual only covers the new features in V3, not really how to use FB in general. I don't think he has scans of the V2 manual.