(http://gamedoctorhk.com/images/famicom/fc-0422.JPG)
The Hong Kong Famicom console is surrounded by mysteries regarding its internal workings. Is it PAL or NTSC? What does the
Slow/Normal switch do? How's the compatibility with JP Famicom software? Since HK Famicoms are not easy to come by these questions have been unanswered for a long time.
Today I was looking around on NESdev forums and thanks to its crap forum search function which finds everything except what you were originally searching for, I've arrived to this:
nesdev.parodius.com :: Hong Kong version Famicom clock frequency is 21.3125MHz (http://nesdev.parodius.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=5358)
A member of that forum got hold of a HK Famicom and was able to take it apart and see what made it tick and how it did it.
QuoteI finally got a Hong Kong version Famicom recently. That uses NTSC CPU and PPU chips, but there is an NTSC-to-PAL conversion chip in the power/modulator section. (Nintendo patented the conversion technique used by this, the patent is interesting reading.) That chip converts the colour encoding, but can also halt the PPU in order to get a 50Hz picture. There is a 50/60Hz switch on the back of the console. Strangely, on the old PAL TV I tested the console with, the 60Hz PAL picture is fine but the 50Hz picture appears in black and white.
Anyway. The crystal frequency in the Hong Kong Famicom is 21.3125MHz (vs 21.47727 for a normal NTSC Famicom). The reason for the difference is probably so the horizontal scan rate is closer to the 15.625kHz PAL standard. Maybe some PAL TVs were not tolerant of variations???
The result is that (in full-speed mode) the Hong Kong Famicom has a frame rate of about 59.5 Hz.
The console main board ID is HVC-CPU-NPC-26-01
A label on the power/modulator shielding reads HVC-HKG-26
The NTSC-to-PAL chip has 20 pins and is marked N NPC26
Thanks to his findings we can finally reveal the truth about the HK Famicom!
So, the HK Famicom is a standard Japanese NTSC Famicom sporting a 2A03 CPU and a 2C02 PPU (and thus it's fully compatible with JP Famicom software - in essence it's a NTSC model) but it has been fitted with a Nintendo made NTSC to PAL transcoder circuit to convert the NTSC color signal into a PAL one for HK TVs.
Additional to the NTSC to PAL transcoding, the circuit is able to produce a 50 Hz video signal by "freezing" the PPU chip during operation and thus reduce its effective frame rate. So this is what the
Slow/Normal switch does. It's a 50/60 Hz switch, albeit a very complicated one.
In the
Normal position, it allows the PPU to function as usual, making the system output PAL60 video (this means 60 Hz video with PAL color encoding, which violates the PAL standard but can be displayed by some TVs). In the
Slow position, the PPU gets halted at defined intervals to produce 50 Hz video, and thus a "true" PAL video output.
On the other hand, a PAL NES uses a completely different CPU and PPU (2A07 and 2C07) in addition to a different crystal oscillator. It runs at a lower CPU speed, generates a perfect PAL signal right from its PPU and thus needs modified software. The HK Famicom is a NTSC Famicom which has been kludged by Nintendo themselves to produce pseudo-PAL video output. It's compatible with NTSC games and incompatible with PAL games.
Further down the thread, another mystery is revealed. I remember seeing a Famicom like this one here in FW at some point in time:
(http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/2925/p1010127.jpg)
(http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/7259/p1010126h.jpg)
We were all puzzled by the combination of an official Famicom motherboard and a seemingly unlicensed RF modulator board. This RF modulator board contains a chip in the middle labeled MK5060 and there's a multitude of wires running from it into the Famicom motherboard. The PCB is labeled Makko Toys, Ltd. Nobody at the time had a clear answer for this.
It turns out that this unlicensed RF modulator board does the same thing as the HK Famicom's video transcoder. The MK5060 chip converts the NTSC video output of the original Famicom into PAL video and provides the same PPU freezing facilities to enable 50 Hz video output (this explains the multitude of wires running from the chip into the motherboard). In this case the TV/GAME switch would work as a 50/60 Hz switch using the same technique as the HK Famicom. The rest of it is a plain vanilla Power/RF Modulator board which is probably tuned into European/Asian channel frequencies.
What could have been the uses for this? I presume that this board was used by unlicensed outfits to import Famicom consoles into PAL territories, especially China, Hong Kong, Taiwan, etc. By fitting one of these boards into a NTSC Famicom, it effectively turns into a PAL one which is able to run Japanese games.
It opens up the question: Which method came first? Nintendo's or Makko Toys'? Did Nintendo create the HK Famicom as an answer to the proliferation of PAL-modded Famicom consoles in places like Hong Kong? Or was it the other way around? Both scenarios seem pretty plausible to me.
Haven't a clue about what came first but I do have one of these elusive famicoms. No box though.
Actually, I'm trying to get rid of it but nobody on DigitalPress seems interested.
Anyone here want this thing?
How much are we talking minus shipping? I might get one just because my AV famicom buzzes on my PAL TV.
Quote from: L___E___T on November 29, 2009, 11:16:24 am
How much are we talking minus shipping? I might get one just because my AV famicom buzzes on my PAL TV.
I'm not looking to make any money off of it, so I'm only asking $25 without shipping (the price I paid for it).
Almost forgot to mention this but its important. I don't have an AC adapter or an RF cable for it. I tested it with the RF cable from my NES and the AC adapter from my A/V Famicom. Glorious black and white with no sound.
Great price but the shipping could be killer. I wouldn't get an NTSC to PAL convertor, it's not the NTSC signal it's the machine itself. My other NTSC consoles work fine but thanks for highlighting the idea.
If it's around in a week I may come back to you!
Quote from: L___E___T on December 03, 2009, 11:05:37 am
Great price but the shipping could be killer. I wouldn't get an NTSC to PAL convertor, it's not the NTSC signal it's the machine itself. My other NTSC consoles work fine but thanks for highlighting the idea.
If it's around in a week I may come back to you!
Nobody's expressed interest thus far on the DigitPress forums in that so I think you're pretty safe. Even if it's worldwide shipping, I'm pretty sure I can take care of customs and keep the costs down with good old flat rate from the USPS.
i like the front label on the HK Famicom, also the fact it works on both PAL and NTSC makes it grand to own.
I personally would really like to see that.
Quote from: The Uninvited Gremlin on December 05, 2009, 10:08:43 pm
i like the front label on the HK Famicom, also the fact it works on both PAL and NTSC makes it grand to own.
I personally would really like to see that.
It is rather interesting. All of the labels that are Japanese on a standard Famicom are in English. I suppose all of this can trace back to the fact that Hong Kong was a British Territory for quite some time. It certainly explains the use of the PAL video format.
hi guys im a noob and have bought a famicom HK version i was just wondering if you know if a japanese disk system would work on the HK famicom please help me !! thanks :D
There is another thread detailing the HK Famicom. It seems like the video signal is converted to PAL post-motherboard. This means that it should be compatible with Japanese Famicom software. If this is the case, I do not see why Disk System stuff should be a problem. Unless the Disk System has its own video and audio outs (I have a Sharp Twin, so I do not know what the standalone disk unit's cables/connections are). If I am wrong, someone will correct my deductions.
The FDS should work fine with a HK Famicom. I don't think there was a HK Disk System (but I could be wrong), but know for sure that a lot of FDS pirate disks come from Hong Kong and they work fine on a Jap. FDS & Famicom setup.
thanks for the fast reply guys ;D thats helped me out quite a lot, £50 is a lot spend if it aint gonna work lol
if either of you have got any more info that would be great thanks again ;D ;D ;D ;D
Welcome! Where are you from? I presume you're European since you're getting a HK Famicom.
yeah lol i am from UK i received the famicom disk system and it worked fine with famicom grand prix first time so thanks for the sound advice, but after i turned it off and went to play it again it just comes up with err 27 any clues guys ??
Try cleaning the disk and also the head in the disk system with q-tips & a bit of isopropyl alcohol.
thanks for the info ive just tracked down the goods to do the job and a tutorial on youtube how to dismantle it ill let you know how i get on, thanks guys
thats not worked have you got any more ideas on how to get rid of this err 27
Do you have any other disk games? If so, do all of them fail to load?
nope only the one im afraid :(
hi guys ive just bought another game and it works so it looks like ive possibly had the first game to close to magnet and lost the data is there any way to rewrite these games to the disk thank you
Hong Kong FC
(http://usera.imagecave.com/capcom2000/FC0042.jpg)
Well, just wanted to add my 2 ¢ regarding what already has been said....The Hong Kong Famicom does indeed have NTSC PPU & CPU with the addition of flip signal converter....I got one from another fellow member..Removed the existing clk signals and installed my own NTSC master Clock circuit:
(http://usera.imagecave.com/capcom2000/PICT00.jpg)
Here you can see can see the 3 native jumper wires that go to the PAL converter near the RF (yellow/orange/red):
(http://usera.imagecave.com/capcom2000/PICT0047.jpg)
And finally, a quick NTSC AV mod:
(http://usera.imagecave.com/capcom2000/PICT0055.jpg)
I would trade my original Japanese Famicom in a second for a HK Famicom, they are so awesome. Any takers?
Whoa, where can I buy one? :o
Quote from: ooXxXoo on March 19, 2010, 02:58:29 pm
Hong Kong FC
Well, just wanted to add my 2 ¢ regarding what already has been said....The Hong Kong Famicom does indeed have NTSC PPU & CPU with the addition of flip signal converter....I got one from another fellow member..Removed the existing clk signals and installed my own NTSC master Clock circuit:
Here you can see can see the 3 native jumper wires that go to the PAL converter near the RF (yellow/orange/red):
And finally, a quick NTSC AV mod:
(http://usera.imagecave.com/capcom2000/PICT0055.jpg)
Glad to see you were able to make something of it. Mighty fine AV mod as usual.
Quote from: The Uninvited Gremlin on March 19, 2010, 03:21:21 pm
I would trade my original Japanese Famicom in a second for a HK Famicom, they are so awesome. Any takers?
The only difference between this A/V modded Hong-Kong Famicom and a regular Famicom is the sticker. Not to mention if you have an unmodded one, the picture won't work iirc.
Quote from: nintendodork on March 20, 2010, 04:55:17 pm
The only difference between this A/V modded Hong-Kong Famicom and a regular Famicom is the sticker. Not to mention if you have an unmodded one, the picture won't work iirc.
Stickers. Every sticker is in English, the front sticker says Hong Kong version, and the bottom plate has a sticker that has all the HK part numbers. That one that ooXxXoo modded used to be mine.
Quote from: nintendodork on March 20, 2010, 04:55:17 pm
Quote from: The Uninvited Gremlin on March 19, 2010, 03:21:21 pm
I would trade my original Japanese Famicom in a second for a HK Famicom, they are so awesome. Any takers?
The only difference between this A/V modded Hong-Kong Famicom and a regular Famicom is the sticker. Not to mention if you have an unmodded one, the picture won't work iirc.
Hmm.. then I would like the shell to one. Lol.
I just got an AV Modded HK Famicom on Saturday!
(http://www.zanman.com/eBay/101_1918.JPG)
The AC Adapter isn't OEM
(http://www.zanman.com/eBay/101_1919.JPG)
Instruction book and Registration Card
(http://www.zanman.com/eBay/101_1920.JPG)
My Square Button Famicom next to my HK Famicom
(http://www.zanman.com/eBay/101_1923.JPG)
(http://www.zanman.com/eBay/101_1924.JPG)
Picture of the Back.
(http://www.zanman.com/eBay/101_1926.JPG)
Wow, that is a clean square button Famicom.
I realize this is an old thread, but I have a weird Famicom/Makko combination somewhat like the images in the first post.
I have some questions, and wanted to show y'all the combo I have here.
Searching all over the web, I have not found any images with this exact Makko Power/RF PCB (BN5060 II Super).
Also, I haven't seen any attached to a GPM-02 mainboard.
This is a round-button Famicom, and the sticker on the bottom has the "VCI logo" (HC3066046).
When they added the Makko PCB, they also seem to have broken the capacitor "C5" (Top view).
The white wire (Bottom view) is connected at that point:
Top view:
(http://www.avanosch.nl/gallery/Famicom/mobo-top-unmod.jpg)
Bottom view:
(http://www.avanosch.nl/gallery/Famicom/mobo-btm-unmod.jpg)
Un-capped RF module (the cap has "Makko" embossed):
(http://www.avanosch.nl/gallery/Famicom/mobo-rf-uncap.jpg)
RF module sticker:
(http://www.avanosch.nl/gallery/Famicom/mobo-rf-sticker.jpg)
A few years ago, I AV modded this Famicom with some success. (Mod removed, visible in Bottom view (top-left))
It seems to have failed now. (Colors were off, and sound was buzzing)
I'm planning to do a new AV Mod, but I have a few questions:
- Do I actually need an AV Mod, or could I wire directly to the Makko PCB? (I live in the Netherlands, so PAL = Good)
* Notice the free contacts on the RF Module, near the MK5060 IC
- What advantages or disadvantages do I have (living in a PAL region), having this Makko "modification"?
- What are the 3 (I see ground) short red wires for? (Top view, "connector" P3)
- What are the 3 long wires for? (White, red and yellow)
- Anything else someone could tell me about this configuration?
Thanks for your replies!
Do the AV mod that's stickied at the top of this board, I wouldn't bother messing around with that aftermarket RF/power board. It will output NTSC video but I believe most PAL TVs support NTSC composite video just fine.
Well, if I connect via the RF connector on a pretty old PAL TV, the video signal is not too bad...
There seems to be no sound though.
But as I get a decent video picture with RF, I'm presuming it's outputting a PAL signal.
(No modifications)
-EDIT-
Or did you mean that the output after doing the AV mod is a NTSC signal?
Quote from: AvanOsch on December 03, 2012, 08:09:36 pm
Or did you mean that the output after doing the AV mod is a NTSC signal?
That's right, since the Famicom still has the NTSC CPU and PPU. Like I said, it would be much better to do the mod as detailed in the Tech Assistance board as I think it'll give you better results than fiddling around with that Makko board. You can tap audio from pin 46 of the cart connector but I got better audio quality by taping the audio from the component labeled FC1 (which I presume is an inductor). I forget exactly which leg to tap from but I believe it was from the point towards the right-hand side, looking at the solder side of the motherboard.
Quote from: 80sFREAK on December 04, 2012, 03:54:45 pm
Quote from: 2A03 on December 04, 2012, 01:28:34 pmFamicom still has the NTSC CPU
ROFL Tell me, please where is NTSC output in CPU
2A03 obviously meant PPU.
Quote from: AvanOsch on December 03, 2012, 05:17:50 pm
I haven't seen any attached to a GPM-02 mainboard.
Actually there was another person that posted picture of a GPM-02 board with a Makko mod in this forum recently.
So you couldn't get a decent picture through RF either? With the risk of repeating myself; I also got to try a Makko modded system but I didn't get sound and the picture I got was even worse then what I get from an unmodded Famicom via RF. Maybe they are only good in some Chinese PAL TVs or something.
Do that switch do anything if you flick it? Mine didn't.
Quote from: 80sFREAK on December 04, 2012, 03:54:45 pm
Quote from: 2A03 on December 04, 2012, 01:28:34 pmFamicom still has the NTSC CPU
ROFL Tell me, please where is NTSC output in CPU
I was referring to the 2A07, I think you could have assumed that easily enough.
Quotecomponent labeled FC1 (which I presume is an inductor).
finally lol
[/quote]
So I tripped over the name of a single component, why does that matter to you so much and why the hell are you using it to poke fun at me? Seriously
Sorry to necrobump, but does anyone have really nice photos of the english decals? I'll be retr0bright-ing my Fami, and that means the old labels are going bye-bye. Since I am doing some mods anyway, I think I'd like to put English decals on it.
Quote from: P on December 04, 2012, 04:57:41 pm
So you couldn't get a decent picture through RF either? With the risk of repeating myself; I also got to try a Makko modded system but I didn't get sound and the picture I got was even worse then what I get from an unmodded Famicom via RF. Maybe they are only good in some Chinese PAL TVs or something.
Do that switch do anything if you flick it? Mine didn't.
Wow. Totally missed your post!
I was actually browsing this thread, because of a new "project"...
Sorry about that...
Yes, I did get a decent picture through RF (No sound - This is normal, as 80sFreak pointed out)
Also, the switch makes the frequency change (50/60Hz)
Very funny: 50Hz actually runs slower than 60Hz. You can even hear the speed of the music change!
In the end, I AV Modded this Famicom Picking the video signal off the Makko board.
Turns out, my brother's old TV does support 60Hz, but can't get the colors through NTSC-AV.
(He uses this old thing, because the NES Zapper does not work on flatscreens...)
I actually followed the video traces on the Makko board, and managed to get a decent (Post-PAL-conversion) signal from it.
I used a simple circuit (using a C1815 transistor)
So now this is an AV PAL Famicom.
Nice!
Post Merge: January 19, 2013, 08:16:40 am
Here are some images.
I already returned the console to my brother, so I can't make any pics of the actual mod.
This is where I found the video-out on the makko board.
(http://www.avanosch.nl/gallery/Famicom/rf-video-out.jpg)
Using this variable resistor, you can adjust the video brightness.
cool.
(http://www.avanosch.nl/gallery/Famicom/rf-video-adjust.jpg)
Thought I'd just update this thread instead of making a new one.
If anybody cares, I "discovered" that there are at least two hardware revisions of the Hong Kong Famicom HVC-001HKG.
The first one (older) has wires running from the RF board to the mainboard, in order to implement the 50/60Hz mod.
PHOTOS HERE (https://www.dropbox.com/sh/74g7tt05923qxyr/AAASHqGCjHFFtWxI81nhKo7Ka?dl=0) (serial HPH114376, revision of rf board and mainboard 18)
The second one (newer) has no wires; everything is more neatly implemented via small hidden metal connections from the RF board to the mainboard. Basically it's the same mod, but more professionally done, and with much lower risk of damaging the console if opened.
PHOTOS HERE (https://www.dropbox.com/sh/44yg1fgxvmx6j7p/AAC2Tmvjhm4BOyIp_EhpalCna?dl=0) (serial HPH153857, revision of rf board and mainboard 26)
And a small comparison: PHOTOS HERE (https://www.dropbox.com/sh/w2afzsqwhvbwnc9/AAD6ahNEFj3bynApphjdONcna?dl=0)
You don't need to open your Famicom to find out which mod version you have. Just look through the grating at the bottom of the console; if you can see the green "thing" (a capacitor or whatever) on the left, you've got an older mod, if you can't see anything, you've got a newer mod.
Very cool is Hong Kong Famicom to have 50/60MHz option does Hong Kong NES have it too? And how it is even possible with only one X-Tal and Only one chipset (PPU CPU)
I don't think Honk Kong NES has. The Hong Kong Famicom was supposedly released by Nintendo to compete with the unofficially 50/60 Hz modded Famicoms that people in Hong Kong imported from Japan and modded, since the Hong Kong NES didn't stand a chance against these.
Hey dude! You seem to be pro'level, I've picked up a Famicom in HK, Japanese casing, all the same, but it has the BN6050i abs I'm not getting any signal out of it. Or at least it is intermittent.
I looks as if the 60/50hrtz switcher is rusted, so I think that's my first stop.
Any other suggestions of what I might be able to try?
I am a noob in this space, but I can solder ok! Any way of soldering components to deliver AV signal?
Quote from: 133MHz on November 28, 2009, 02:02:16 pm(http://gamedoctorhk.com/images/famicom/fc-0422.JPG)
The Hong Kong Famicom console is surrounded by mysteries regarding its internal workings. Is it PAL or NTSC? What does the Slow/Normal switch do? How's the compatibility with JP Famicom software? Since HK Famicoms are not easy to come by these questions have been unanswered for a long time.
Today I was looking around on NESdev forums and thanks to its crap forum search function which finds everything except what you were originally searching for, I've arrived to this:
nesdev.parodius.com :: Hong Kong version Famicom clock frequency is 21.3125MHz (http://nesdev.parodius.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=5358)
A member of that forum got hold of a HK Famicom and was able to take it apart and see what made it tick and how it did it.
QuoteI finally got a Hong Kong version Famicom recently. That uses NTSC CPU and PPU chips, but there is an NTSC-to-PAL conversion chip in the power/modulator section. (Nintendo patented the conversion technique used by this, the patent is interesting reading.) That chip converts the colour encoding, but can also halt the PPU in order to get a 50Hz picture. There is a 50/60Hz switch on the back of the console. Strangely, on the old PAL TV I tested the console with, the 60Hz PAL picture is fine but the 50Hz picture appears in black and white.
Anyway. The crystal frequency in the Hong Kong Famicom is 21.3125MHz (vs 21.47727 for a normal NTSC Famicom). The reason for the difference is probably so the horizontal scan rate is closer to the 15.625kHz PAL standard. Maybe some PAL TVs were not tolerant of variations???
The result is that (in full-speed mode) the Hong Kong Famicom has a frame rate of about 59.5 Hz.
The console main board ID is HVC-CPU-NPC-26-01
A label on the power/modulator shielding reads HVC-HKG-26
The NTSC-to-PAL chip has 20 pins and is marked N NPC26
Thanks to his findings we can finally reveal the truth about the HK Famicom!
So, the HK Famicom is a standard Japanese NTSC Famicom sporting a 2A03 CPU and a 2C02 PPU (and thus it's fully compatible with JP Famicom software - in essence it's a NTSC model) but it has been fitted with a Nintendo made NTSC to PAL transcoder circuit to convert the NTSC color signal into a PAL one for HK TVs.
Additional to the NTSC to PAL transcoding, the circuit is able to produce a 50 Hz video signal by "freezing" the PPU chip during operation and thus reduce its effective frame rate. So this is what the Slow/Normal switch does. It's a 50/60 Hz switch, albeit a very complicated one.
In the Normal position, it allows the PPU to function as usual, making the system output PAL60 video (this means 60 Hz video with PAL color encoding, which violates the PAL standard but can be displayed by some TVs). In the Slow position, the PPU gets halted at defined intervals to produce 50 Hz video, and thus a "true" PAL video output.
On the other hand, a PAL NES uses a completely different CPU and PPU (2A07 and 2C07) in addition to a different crystal oscillator. It runs at a lower CPU speed, generates a perfect PAL signal right from its PPU and thus needs modified software. The HK Famicom is a NTSC Famicom which has been kludged by Nintendo themselves to produce pseudo-PAL video output. It's compatible with NTSC games and incompatible with PAL games.
Further down the thread, another mystery is revealed. I remember seeing a Famicom like this one here in FW at some point in time:
(http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/2925/p1010127.jpg)
(http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/7259/p1010126h.jpg)
We were all puzzled by the combination of an official Famicom motherboard and a seemingly unlicensed RF modulator board. This RF modulator board contains a chip in the middle labeled MK5060 and there's a multitude of wires running from it into the Famicom motherboard. The PCB is labeled Makko Toys, Ltd. Nobody at the time had a clear answer for this.
It turns out that this unlicensed RF modulator board does the same thing as the HK Famicom's video transcoder. The MK5060 chip converts the NTSC video output of the original Famicom into PAL video and provides the same PPU freezing facilities to enable 50 Hz video output (this explains the multitude of wires running from the chip into the motherboard). In this case the TV/GAME switch would work as a 50/60 Hz switch using the same technique as the HK Famicom. The rest of it is a plain vanilla Power/RF Modulator board which is probably tuned into European/Asian channel frequencies.
What could have been the uses for this? I presume that this board was used by unlicensed outfits to import Famicom consoles into PAL territories, especially China, Hong Kong, Taiwan, etc. By fitting one of these boards into a NTSC Famicom, it effectively turns into a PAL one which is able to run Japanese games.
It opens up the question: Which method came first? Nintendo's or Makko Toys'? Did Nintendo create the HK Famicom as an answer to the proliferation of PAL-modded Famicom consoles in places like Hong Kong? Or was it the other way around? Both scenarios seem pretty plausible to me.