List of NTSC games on PAL Famiclone compatibility

[Cheetahmen]

Yeah, more recent NOACs are basically a gamble sound-wise from what I've noticed. Some of them aren't too bad (reversed duty cycles just like many older ones) but some will play certain games horribly out of key. No idea what causes it (other than making them on the cheap of course) but I stay away from the more recent ones mainly for that reason

[Retrospectives]

This question is very very hard to answer. Or, question. It is not a question, but Famiclones as we all know, came and comes in totally different sizes, shapes, using totally different chipsets, and even though one PAL Famiclone might do the job it is absolutely not certain that another one will.

Also then there is the issue with the fact of following: What is a real NTSC game? A game intended for release in NTSC regions such as Japan for example, or are we talking about Pirate carts? If we are talking about official products, then it would be at least partially easier due to the simple fact that they are easier to determine why and how they are working.

Pirates tend do be extensively hacked in any sort of way. Mappers, graphics, etc etc. Indeed a lot of the bigger pirate companies has at least some kind of standardisation of what and how they released it. But those "NTSC" games might as well have been intended for sale in Russia, Poland, South America or wherever PAL-Famiclones were being strong.

So all in all, it would be really hard to track it down, although all kind of documentation for the sake of being doable is of course appreciated and I hope that you will come to a conclusion. 

[Wanderer]

I tested Spy vs Spy in a few older Famiclones, and the sound is fine, so it does look like just newer Famiclones have the off pitch problem..

Making this comprehensive is definitely going to be difficult. I think the biggest issue is going to be classifying the different Famiclones.

So far with everything I've tested on, there's a neat split between how cartridges work on older (90s) globtop Famiclones, and newer globtop Famiclones. I should have a Micro Genius arriving soon, so I'll go through and test again on that (assuming it works,) and see if it's safe to assume that 90s globtop and chip based clones can be considered the same for the sake of compatibility.

Working out the differences between pirates (and different pirates of the same game,) and the originals may turn out to be an even bigger issue.

If anybody has suggestions on how to classify everything and make this list more feasible I'm open to suggestions, although if people can test and post their results (including games already tested so we can cover different hardware and releases) it may (I hope) start to fall into place. 

[P]

"Older Famiclones" and "Newer Famiclones" is very vague. Now I don't know much about Famiclones and unlicensed games at all, but I'm assuming newer Famiclones are most often NOACs, and older Famiclones are similar to Dendy (old Dendy).

If this is true, then it sounds like PAL NOACs works like PAL NES when it comes to pitch and speed but not when it comes to the emphasis bits (Bubble Bobble FDS is red like it should).

Older Famiclones that are like Dendy however have correct pitch (unlike PAL NES) but still wrong speed like PAL NES, and the emphasis bits for red and green are swapped (Bubble Bobble FDS becomes green) also like PAL NES.


If you only talk about licensed games it wouldn't be a problem to determine what an NTSC game is, but yeah for unlicensed games there are no rules. I guess most bootlegs generally only has simpler hacks like more starting lives and sprite hacks and such though. Speed and pitch hacking is much harder to do, and bootleg companies doesn't seem to worry too much about "trivial" things such as gameplay speed and music that is out of key.

[Wanderer]

Alot of Dendys and similar from the 90s also have globtop NOACs - including the Subor which has red and green swapped. So far the earliest Dendy with a globtop I've seen was marked as being from '94.

Eschewing the newer/older split even further though - a Micro Genius IQ-701 (chip based PAL Famiclone) arrived today - and the colours on Bubble Bobble are fine.

This is kind of interesting for tracking the history of Famiclones, and the evolution of the globtop NOAC, but unfortunately makes trying to make this list even harder. If anybody has suggestions for categorising Famiclones, please post them 

For NTSC games I was trying to stick with licensed games, and bootlegs sold in NTSC regions. Including games which started off as being coded for NTSC before being bootlegged and hacked to sell in a PAL region would be counterproductive to trying to produce a list, seeing as they're more likely to have had the timing deliberately altered. I'm hoping that for games bootlegged to be sold in NTSC regions they (should) play comparatively to an original cart.

[P]

Alot of Dendys and similar from the 90s also have globtop NOACs - including the Subor which has red and green swapped. So far the earliest Dendy with a globtop I've seen was marked as being from '94.

Yeah that's why I said old Dendy. But yeah apparently all NOACs doesn't behave the same way.

For NTSC games I was trying to stick with licensed games, and bootlegs sold in NTSC regions. Including games which started off as being coded for NTSC before being bootlegged and hacked to sell in a PAL region would be counterproductive to trying to produce a list, seeing as they're more likely to have had the timing deliberately altered. I'm hoping that for games bootlegged to be sold in NTSC regions they (should) play comparatively to an original cart.

Yes it's hard to make a list of bootlegs since we don't know how they were messed with. Although as I said before I highly doubt many bootleggers took the time to change the speed in games, judging by how horrible most graphic hacks are in bootlegs. Even many licensed companies didn't optimise their own games for PAL, so why would bootleggers that doesn't even have access to the source code, and just tries to make quick money on games they didn't even make, bother with it? No way.


It might be easier if you know what things to look for. I found an old list I made with all the potential compatibility issues with a PAL NES that I'm aware of. Famiclones may have any mix of these features and possibly add others that I'm not aware of.

Compatibility with PAL NES (compared with Famicom and NTSC NES):
1. Emphasis bits red and green are swapped in $2001
2. Sprite speed is different
3. Music tempo is different
4. Music pitch is different
5. Raster effects needs modifications (for parallax backgrounds and such background splitting effects)
6. OAM decay doesn't occur (meaning the sprites in sprite memory never disappears I think)
7. OAM DMA needs to finish earlier (OAM DMA is a hardware thing that is normally used every frame to update sprites)

1, 2 and 3 applies to the old Dendy as well, but maybe not the other differences. 2 is basically gameplay speed. I'm not sure if it affects things like scrolling or if it's only the sprites' movement speed. Also I'm not sure if there are any games that relies on 6 or 7.

[chowder]

I don't know if such a list is really feasible.  Even the NOAC clone makers cloned each other, introducing subtle differences in the process.  Famiclones that may previously have used a popular discrete clone (like the UMC branded ones) then swapped to some kind of NOAC for later revisions.  It's not always clear which is which until you open them, so even year of manufacture wouldn't help.

[Wanderer]

A comprehensive list is starting to look pretty impossible.

A list with problems common to all PAL Famiclones (using P's list of potential problems for the PAL NES is probably a good start) could be doable, listing for example, that SMB1 runs slowly on all clones, but ignoring any problems unique to any particular chipset.

Whether such a list would be useful may be another question, I personally have tried to find how certain NTSC games will run on PAL Famiclones, but how many other people have/do?

[chowder]

All NTSC/NTSC(J) games will run slower on a PAL system, whether it's a PAL Famiclone or an original PAL NES using an adapter to play Famicom carts.

[P]

Yeah 2 and probably 3 in the list should apply to all Famiclones that update the TV in 50 Hz I guess.