AV Famicom and sound mixing

[Yukima]

I'm thinking about getting an AV Famicom or AV-modded original Famicom pretty soon, and I was reading a couple of posts on NESDev about how well they handle the extra sound channels used by the FDS and games like Akumajou Densetsu and Lagrange Point.  From what I read, the AV Famicom's sound mixing is not as good (expansion audio is too loud compared to the normal famicom sound).  Is this true for all AV Famicoms?  Also, can the AV mod for the original Famicom interfere with the sound mixing?

I'm planning to get Akumajou Densetsu and maybe some FDS games once I find an FDS, and I have Lagrange Point already, and I'd like to get a Famicom that will make these games sound the best!

[b1aCkDeA7h]

Hmm, interesting. Don't think I've ever heard of this before. If I have time tomorrow, I'll do a comparison between an unmodded Famicom, AV Modded Famicom, Twin Famicom, and AV Famicom and see if the expansion sound is indeed louder on the AV Famicom.

[Xious]

You can suppress the volume by increasing the value of the resistors hat you use. I'll have to look at the NES mod to wee what they call for, and if you want, I.ll give you some suggestions. I've not done this on a New Famicom (A/V), but I have on a standard FC. I don't think there should be a difference, and I have a stereo mod diagram for the Famicom that I located a while back. (Maybe two or three) so i can use them to whip-up some instructions for you.

Can you read schematic notation, or do you want diagrams/instructions?

Send me a PM and let me know what you'd like. I nedd to crack open a new Famicom to inspect a couple things already, so i can take a closer look at it while I'm in there.

[Yukima]

Hmm... I'm afraid I don't understand very much of what you mentioned. I'm pretty terrible at working with electronics and know little to nothing of how they work. (The closest I got was to open up a Super Famicom to clean the case, and only glancing at what was inside...  )

I suppose if I had step-by-step instructions plus diagrams, I could probably manage to do something like changing sound volume (AV Famicom) or doing an AV mod (original Famicom).  Do either of these modifications require soldering?  I've never used a soldering iron in my life. 

I'm really just wondering if the expanded sound works normally on an AV Famicom or an AV-modded original Famicom.  That will help me decide which one to get, considering the games I want to get will utilize the extra sound.

(edit: funny how I asked if the AV mod required soldering when the answer is a few topics away from this one... http://www.famicomworld.com/forum/index.php?topic=4713.0 )

[nintendodork]

If you do the mod right, the expanded sound works completely fine on an AV-modded Famicom.  I can speak for this first-hand.

[b1aCkDeA7h]

If you do the mod right, the expanded sound works completely fine on an AV-modded Famicom.  I can speak for this first-hand.

I second that, and AV modding a Famicom was the first soldering job I ever undertook.

[Xious]

This is going to be a bit long, so please excuse my wordiness, but I want to try to cover every aspect of your questions in detail...

All of these proceedures require soldering, plus both mild to moderate technical knowledge and patience. If you have a local electronics repair shoppe, they can likely do the job if you bring in the diagrams, but it becomes a cost versus benefit issue:

Frankly, I don't think the stereo sound mod is all that hot. I can note a slight difference, but in mh experience you have to adjust the mix level for each game to make it worthwhile. Before you undertake this measure, I suggest finding a practice board (like an old PC ISA or PCI card that's rubbish) and learning how to solder by practicing on it before you attempt any mod to your FC. Soldering is a cross between an art and a science, and although all of these mods require only adding solder points (not removing them), you can destroy your FC's logic board if you aren't careful. (By overheating the PPU, or burning a trace, for example.)

If you want to roar on ahead valiantly, go out and buy a decent soldering pencil, not a soldering iron a soldering wick, a bottle of flux, a tip-cleaner, maybe a tip-tinning pad and a tube of 60/40 solder.. You want a soldering pencil that has a very fine point for working on this stuff, which will run about $40 (on the low-end) in an electronic parts shoppe. (The other materials will be around an additional $20 in total.) Once you're geared up, practice adding and removing solder joints and components on scrap boards, and watch some videos on how to create good solder joints. There are plenty of them on the Internet (e.g. Youtube, etc.).

The bulk of the cost in materials may be about the same as having a shop do it for you though, so it.s up t you on how to proceed. The benefit of doing it yourself is usually cost, for those with the equipment, but in your case it may be the same or even less to have it done  by a professional. The side-benefit to you is that you'll learn how to do it and have the tools to do more in the future. Additionally, I strongly advise doing the A/V mod at the same time. The stereo sound mod generally goes hand-in-hand with the A/V mod. If you want instructions and can't find them, let us know. There are instructions somewhere in this forum, as well as all over the 'net. I have some in my library as well, but the sound mod is a little more complicated (IMHO) than the A/V mod.

You may also simply want to compare your normal system sound to the general mixed mock-stereo output on-line. It's mostly noticeable on the FDS (with enhanced sound games like 'Zelda no Densetsu' and 'Metroid') or on games that already have enhanced sound (such as 'Akumajou Densetsu') because of a custom sound chip. If you don't have these games or an FDS, then the stereo mod isn't going to do much. Standard carts won't be very differently sounding from what they are at present. 'Galaxian' isn't going to sound any better with mock-stereo than it does in mono; in fact, it'll probably just sound straight-up funky.

If you just want sound out of stereo speakers, you can buy a $2 RCA mono-to-stereo (RCA female to 2x RCA male) splitter that will allow your FC to output mono sound to both speakers. You can buy these...well..pretty much anywhere. Radio Shack, Amazon, anywhere that sells audio equipment will sell them. This doesn't split the signals to give you greater sound depth out of each speaker like the stereo mod does, but it gives you better sound on a stereo system (A/V). (If you're using RF, then you will already get mono out of both speakers through your tuner.)

To answer your question as to which system to buy, you should go with one of these three:

Original FC with A/V mods already done
New Type Famicom (a.k.a. A/V system)
Sharp Twin Famicom (has built-in FDS and A'/V out)

This will save you the step of adding an A/V mod to anything, so you can focus on the sound mod if you desire to attempt it. I'm a sucker for Sharp stuff, so everybody knows which system I'd suggest, but go your own route. The audio and video quality are about level in my experience with all three models, and I prefer the built-in FDS and the slick design of the Twin systems, but everybody has their preferences.

Each system has its own unique features and drawbacks (I covered this a while back in one of my other novella posts about differences between FC systems). The main thing to consider is if you want a New Type FC with modular controllers (but no microphone for games that need it), an original A/V modded Famicom or a Sharp Twin, depending on your taste. If you go with either of the former, you'll also need an FDS.

Whatever you do, never cheap-out buy one that 'comes with a belt for repair'. You'll tear your hear out (if you have hair) trying to fix it if you aren't technically-inclined and may wind up with a $60 lump of plastic and metal that is little more than a doorstop. The fault isn't always the belt either, but people usually presume that the belt is the main culprit. I had an FDS come in for service with a broken kick-back switch for the drive motor, so it never registered the ends of the disk media and just sat there, merrily churning away forever. Even with the new switch and belt, it threw a code because of a spindle alignment problem, and in the end the cost of repairing it was as much as buying a warrantied and working drive. Repairing any FDS is not a simple procedure, so always remember to buy a drive that is both working and has some kind of guarantee or warranty. 

I hope this is helpful and answers your questions...

-Xious

Hmm... I'm afraid I don't understand very much of what you mentioned. I'm pretty terrible at working with electronics and know little to nothing of how they work. (The closest I got was to open up a Super Famicom to clean the case, and only glancing at what was inside...  )

I suppose if I had step-by-step instructions plus diagrams, I could probably manage to do something like changing sound volume (AV Famicom) or doing an AV mod (original Famicom).  Do either of these modifications require soldering?  I've never used a soldering iron in my life. 

I'm really just wondering if the expanded sound works normally on an AV Famicom or an AV-modded original Famicom.  That will help me decide which one to get, considering the games I want to get will utilize the extra sound.

(edit: funny how I asked if the AV mod required soldering when the answer is a few topics away from this one... http://www.famicomworld.com/forum/index.php?topic=4713.0 )

[Yukima]

Wow...  Thanks for all of the information! 

I think I've seen some pictures or videos depicting a mod for changing the sound mix level, something that changes values on a potentiometer or something...  And I've seen some schematics on how to do the stereo AV mod.  I don't know how to solder, but my brother is learning how - he goes to a technical school part time as part of his high school engineering program.  So I have the option of just getting an unmodded Famicom, handing it over to his engineering class to work on as a project, and not having to pay a dime... (though I have my doubts - if something gets accidentally fried, that's potentially $40-50 down the drain!)

However, I did find something interesting.  I frequent Yahoo Japan Auctions a lot, and while looking for Famicoms I came across a seller that had a bunch of AV-modded Famicoms for sale, and actually showed a picture of the board inside - http://page13.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/r70069979.  According to the picture, would this Famicom's sound work well?  From what I could read (katakana) I think it has both the AV mod and the sound mix mod (potentiometer), unless I'm wrong.  I'm hoping that it's good - I might end up getting one of these from the seller.  According to the description (per Google Translate), the case has been cleaned and painted so it looks nice and white, and the price seems good (3300 yen = approximately $39-40, which ends up being around $60-80 after shipping and SMJ fees).

[Xious]

That system doesn't have a stereo sound mod, sorry to say.

What you're seeing is a mod to allow it to save game data to an audio tape recorder (some games, such as 'Castle Excellent' do this; I think 'Wrecking Crew' is another, where you can save level creations to tape). This is in place of using the Family BASIC Keyboard and the Famicom Data Recorder, which are normally required to save the game data. (Well, the Family BASIC KB and any tape deck, really.)

if you look closely, you'll see that those are RF line out  and line in jacks, not knobs.

It's neat though, and you could certainly add the audio mixing to the system, as it already has the A/V mod plus the nifty audio save mod for the handful of games that use it.

-Xious