Mod it till it breaks? Questions about doing multiple mods at once.

[Cyber Akuma]

Hello. I have a front-loading US NES, and I figured it was about time to bring it into the modern age after a long hiatus.

I have been reading up on multiple modifications and upgrades one can perform on the system and have been planning a list of all that I want to do.... however, I am now starting to worry if they would conflict with each other or cause problems.

The modifications I wanted to do are:

• Install a Blinking Light Win (I can't see this causing any issues... except maybe my GameGenie fitting properly anymore)




• Expanded Audio Mod (Except using a rheostat instead of a fixed resistor.... though the only example I could found used a potentiometer instead and wired it up like a rheostat... any reason I can't just use a rheostat instead?)




• Stereo Sound Mod (Still deciding if I should go with raphnet's one-knob method, or one of retrofix's two-knob or no-knob methods)




• Disabling NES10 Lockout (With a switch to re-enable it just in case)

Has anyone by any chance already done all of the above mods to their front-loader? Would there be any issues or incompatibilities I would have to worry about with mixing so many mods together?

Furthermore:
Eventually, I plan to do the Hi-Def NES mod as well, but that won't be for a while.

Will the stereo mod cause any issues with the Hi-Def NES mod? I am guessing the Hi-Def NES mod gets the audio signal out of the system long before the stereo mod even touches it? Does the Hi-Def NES mod output any sort of stereo? Or at least just output the mono through both speakers?

I heard some places that "composite barely works" once the Hi-def NES mod is installed, but could not verify this. Is it true? Does the Hi-Def NES mod break or disable the composite output?

Any other concerns I should be worried about with tossing all of these mods and Hi-Def NES together that anyone can think of?

(Also, I was looking into the component mod, but the Hi-Def mod is already expensive enough, plus the component mod seems significantly more complicated since all you need to do for the Hi-Def mod is de-solder the 40 pin CPU and PPU and then solder them back on with a breakout board underneath... say, instead of soldering the CPU and PPU back onto the NES directly, would it be possible to solder the Hi-Def NES Pads to the NES's board with a socket and then just socket the CPU/PPU in place in case I break something and need to replace it? Has anyone ever done that? Could that cause any problems?)

[Cyber Akuma]

Seeing as a rheostat is just a resistor whose value you can change, it will make zero difference to that of a regular resistor if you keep it fixed on one value.

Well, the reason I want to use a rheostat is specifically so I CAN change the value. There is no one resister value that works since different games, romcarts, consoles, etc seem to amplify the expanded sound differently based on how much resistance there is, hence why I want to use a rheostat instead of a fixed resistor, so I can adjust the volume per game.

[Raverrevolution]

Well I have some answers, but not all of them;

Blinking light win shouldn't interfere with anything as it's just a straight up replacing of the cart slot.  I believe, not 100% sure, but it might circumvent the 10NES chip so you don't have to disable it.

You shouldn't need a switch installed to enable the lockout chip after disabling it.  There should literally be no good purpose in having it enabled.

Lastly if you're going to install the Hi-Def NES mod then I believe you don't need to do the expanded audio mod as the Hi-Def NES takes care of that for you.  Also you can keep composite with the Hi-Def mod.  I was able to on the Famicom.

In the Hi-Def mod you're not resoldering the CPU/PPU directly to anything.  You should be socketing them both.

[Cyber Akuma]

Blinking light win shouldn't interfere with anything as it's just a straight up replacing of the cart slot.  I believe, not 100% sure, but it might circumvent the 10NES chip so you don't have to disable it.

IIRC, it does circumvent the chip, but I heard some talk (not sure if it's true) that you might need to disable it to get expanded audio to work. Regardless, it would also be nice to disable it in case I ever want to remove the BLW for whatever reason. I was more worried about disabling it causing any issues.

You shouldn't need a switch installed to enable the lockout chip after disabling it.  There should literally be no good purpose in having it enabled.

From what I understand a few very rare games might have issues with it disabled, and regardless, from what I understand there should be no issue with putting a switch, I like the option of having a backup just in case.

Lastly if you're going to install the Hi-Def NES mod then I believe you don't need to do the expanded audio mod as the Hi-Def NES takes care of that for you.

I know, but the problem is the Hi-Def mod is something I want to do sometime in the future, not something I can do anytime soon. While all the other mods I can do anytime. I will be relying on the other mods for a while before I manage to get the hi-def mod, and even then if I ever wanted to use composite out (like say, connecting to a CRT) then I would not be able to rely on ther hi-def NES's audio.

I was more worried about it causing issues with the Hi-DEF NES, though from what I understand, it won't as the hi-Def NES completely mixes the audio on it's own and ignores the audio pins of the NES's CPU.

Also you can keep composite with the Hi-Def mod.  I was able to on the Famicom.

Yeah, I am starting to think I mis-read that site. From what I understand, as long as you de-solder that transistor (I think the first versions of the hidef mod didn't support this?) the hi-def mod takes the place of that, and what I misread was that you can't have a HDMI cable plugged in if your want composite, but that composite would work once you unplug the HDMI cable from the back of the NES?

In the Hi-Def mod you're not resoldering the CPU/PPU directly to anything.  You should be socketing them both.

Seems this might have been another screw-up of mine by reading a different installation guide.

In reading this one:
https://www.game-tech.us/hi-def-nes-install-guides-nes-001-front-loader-5-assemble-interposers/
https://www.game-tech.us/hi-def-nes-install-guides-nes-001-front-loader-6-main-assembly/

It seems that nothing gets permanently soldered in? From what I understand, you solder header pins in place of the CPU/PPU (which from what I understand, would be similar to a socket and are not a permanent connection?) and then a socket to the interposers of the Hd-DEF NES to socket the CPU and PPU in? From what I understand, this means that neither the interposers of the hi-Def NES that sit between the CPU/PPU, nor the CPU/PPU themselves get permanently soldered to anything can can be easily removed? Did I get it right this time or did I still screw up understanding how this works?

[Great Hierophant]

The Blinking Light Win has a lockout chip on its connector.  This lockout chip, configured as a key, interfaces with the lockout chip on the NES PCB, configured as a lock.  No pin cutting a mod chip is required.  The Blinking Light Win's connection between the two lockout chips is far, far more stable than the connection between the lockout chip in a cartridge and the lockout chip on in the NES ever were.

The Blinking Light Win will allow the rare games that rely on the Lockout chip to work correctly. 

Disabling the lockout chip should have no effect on expansion audio. 

A 100KOhm rheostat or variable resistor should work well in controlling the volume of expansion audio. Your choice of linear or logarithmic.   

The NESRGB, even with the component video mod, is less intensive than the High-Def NES Mod because you only need to desolder the PPU, not the PPU and CPU.

You are right above being able to remove the High-Def NES mod, the CPU and PPU are easily removable from sockets, the interposers are easily removable from sockets.  The voltage regulator can be easily replaced.  The pin headers and a few wires are the only things that are soldered.

[Raverrevolution]

Seems this might have been another screw-up of mine by reading a different installation guide.

In reading this one:
https://www.game-tech.us/hi-def-nes-install-guides-nes-001-front-loader-5-assemble-interposers/
https://www.game-tech.us/hi-def-nes-install-guides-nes-001-front-loader-6-main-assembly/

It seems that nothing gets permanently soldered in? From what I understand, you solder header pins in place of the CPU/PPU (which from what I understand, would be similar to a socket and are not a permanent connection?) and then a socket to the interposers of the Hd-DEF NES to socket the CPU and PPU in? From what I understand, this means that neither the interposers of the hi-Def NES that sit between the CPU/PPU, nor the CPU/PPU themselves get permanently soldered to anything can can be easily removed? Did I get it right this time or did I still screw up understanding how this works?

Yeah you have it right now.  You're basically first installing sockets directly into the NES after the PPU/CPU removal.  Then to test that everything went smoothly you reinsert the CPU/PPU back into the sockets to try the console out.  Once that's done you install the interposers on the CPU/PPU pcbs along with more sockets and yes, you got it right in that you'd put the pcbs in the sockets on the NES motherboard and then the CPU/PPU in the sockets of the two little pcbs.

Quite honestly the Hi-Def mod was one of my favorite mods I've ever done.  The payout just blew me away and it felt like such an accomplishment.  The absolute best part was being able to play every game off of my Everdrive N8 with full expansion audio, including all the FDS games.

And yes you're also correct about composite only working when the HDMI cable is unplugged.  I didn't have the heart to cut out composite on my system just in case I ever felt the need to hook it up to an old TV.  It works perfectly.

[Cyber Akuma]

The NESRGB, even with the component video mod, is less intensive than the High-Def NES Mod because you only need to desolder the PPU, not the PPU and CPU.

I suppose that one really depends on one's point of view. Since I have pretty much no soldering skills, removing the CPU/PPU seems a lot less intensive than removing the CPU and then soldering a dozen wires all over the place on various components that the RGB mod requires.

You are right above being able to remove the High-Def NES mod, the CPU and PPU are easily removable from sockets, the interposers are easily removable from sockets.  The voltage regulator can be easily replaced.  The pin headers and a few wires are the only things that are soldered.

Good to hear. Although, what wires do you mean? I thought other than a connection you have to bridge, there were no wires to solder for the Hi-Def NES mod? I'll have to look those install steps over again.

Yeah you have it right now.  You're basically first installing sockets directly into the NES after the PPU/CPU removal.  Then to test that everything went smoothly you reinsert the CPU/PPU back into the sockets to try the console out.  Once that's done you install the interposers on the CPU/PPU pcbs along with more sockets and yes, you got it right in that you'd put the pcbs in the sockets on the NES motherboard and then the CPU/PPU in the sockets of the two little pcbs.

That's what I wanted to know, and how I was thinking it would work, thanks.

Although I am assuming I won't be able to test it that way after the hi-def NES has been installed since I would need to re-solder the transistor back in if I wanted to get component to work with it disconnected?

Quite honestly the Hi-Def mod was one of my favorite mods I've ever done.  The payout just blew me away and it felt like such an accomplishment.  The absolute best part was being able to play every game off of my Everdrive N8 with full expansion audio, including all the FDS games.

Yeah, it's just a shame it's so invasive, I love how my SEGA systems just need a cable, as well as my SNES, and otherwise could output RGB natively. I like the idea that if anything happens to the systems, I can replace them. With my NES and N64, I will have to physically mod them, so if anything happens to those I will have to mod the replacements.

And yes you're also correct about composite only working when the HDMI cable is unplugged.  I didn't have the heart to cut out composite on my system just in case I ever felt the need to hook it up to an old TV.  It works perfectly.

Also great to hear, thanks.