Question of proper form (concerning money)

[fcgamer]

One of my students (and also a friend of mine) came to me last week and said that her mother wanted to receive personal tutoring lessons from me.  She is already taking classes to improve her English, but she feels that she would like a private tutor to speed things up a bit, especially when it comes to improving her listening and speaking abilities.  So I talked with the daughter on behalf of the mother, and we agreed upon a price, and a time.  The daughter said that the mother would like a one hour lesson to start, but if things went well then we could bump it up to two hours.  Okay, sounds good to me.

So we met today and went through the lesson, and everything went well...in fact we went about 15 minutes overtime, but no worries, I personally would rather give someone a few extra minutes worth of time in a lesson than short-changing them - I like the job, and so I feel that if I enjoy what I am doing, and can earn money from it, I also want to give people their money's worth, as opposed to just viewing it as a job and being in a hurry to get out.  This is especially true since I am friends with the daughter.

Anyway we went through the lesson today and then the mother left when the lesson was finished (she went with her son to go to the bank I think?), leaving me with the daughter.  We chatted for a bit, then the daughter took me back home so that I could get ready for my next class at a private school, at 3:30.

But here is the kicker:  the mother never paid me for the lesson.  I then saw her again tonight, as I also had class with the daughter tonight (and the mother goes to the same private school the daughter does, for language lessons), and I thought to myself, oh maybe I will be paid then.  But again, nothing.  So I wonder if in Taiwan / Asian culture, you give the first lesson for free (to guarantee the quality?), whether the mother just forgot to pay me, whether I am purposely getting jacked, etc. 

I don't know what the situation is, but what I do know is that money is a touchy subject so I want to know what the best way to approach this is.  I am thinking maybe I will send the daughter (my friend) a text tomorrow asking about it, but I am not sure if this is the best idea or not.  What do you guys think?

[L___E___T]

 
I think personally, you should give the first lesson for free as a taster - it's in good faith and I would let that one go, but I would say you need to be paid in advance before the lesson moving forward maybe - or ask for a standing bank order to be set up.  It would probbaly end the long term lessons to ask for it now anyway so think of the long-term gain and put it down to a lesson learned on clarity maybe

I don't imagine they're being rude - the mother prob thought the daughter would pay for it and vice-versa.  You could try asking the daughter.

I'm well aware these things can be tricky with Asian culture - I just use the disclaimer of not knowing exactly how things work and "not meaning to be rude but can you please explain ___ to me".

Anything I don't agree with and sounds BS I leave at the door.  Hope this helps - though you can probably detect I feel like I don't have time to deal with this stuff in my personal circumstances, so I have a more unapologetic stance when similar things pop up in my own experience.  Nothing rude about that I'd rather just get it out in the open and ask.  You can second guess the politics all day long.  Business is different and I appreciate this is your business so maybe take all of this with a pinch of salt.  Now I don't feel helpful at all!

[Retrospectives]

Culturally wise it is not something that I would say is a common custom when it comes to "first lesson free", but rather it is the opposite. In that i mean that once you have paid for a service and such things, then it is customary to give some freebies and such things just as a polite way of saying "Thanks for buying our product/service"...Example, many East Asian sellers do this when it comes to online shopping. Maybe you have bought a game or a movie, and they will send you some candy as a freebie. This is common for example if you sign a contract for anything from phones, point cards or basically pretty much anything. When i bought my latest phone, i got a food coupon worth 40 USD and a huge pack of toilet paper  .

No, but seriously, you should really make sure of these things before starting to make lessons. In Japan it's not that common to get screwed but in countries like South Korea, Taiwan and to a much broader extent Mainland China, people sometimes try to take advantage of the situation and therefore it is important to be extra careful while getting into business with people. For example. When i was living in S Korea, my landlord had me to sign a contract for 1 year, although his son told me that i could leave at any time. I never reflected on that part since then, my Korean was very poor and i was stupid enough to sign the contract. Finally i had the contract terminated after 7 months, but it took me a hell of a lots of energy and spirit, but finally i managed to break lose from that devil landlord. (In South Korea you have to pay deposits from like 2000 USD and up, which he planned to keep if i broke the contract).

Back to the topic. Although i do not believe that neither your friend or her mother has any bad intentions, it's always a good tip that people in many Asian countries might try to take advantages of the situation. Like L__E__T said, i would consider the first lesson(s) as a freebie just to show some goodwill, but this is not expected in Asia, and the sooner the better you talk to them i would say.

Good luck and i hope that my ramble made any kind of sense....

[fcgamer]

Actually, the whole time I was thinking about the story on here that someone had posted (manuel maybe?) about his student and renting the house in Japan, and the whole drama that ensued.

My friend/student had said that her mother wanted to invite me to rent a house from her, and the mother was also eager to invite me to lunch next week before lessons.  I honestly don't think that I am being prepared to be taken to the cleaners and then hung out to dry, though I do have to question the motive of the mother.  The daughter also said one day how she thinks the mother really likes me as a person, and I remember for my birthday that the daughter had given me a small birthday cake along with some cookies brought back from a trip to New Zealand.  I sometimes get the feeling that this is all some sort of conspiracy from the mother to get me to date the daughter (since she is single and 30 years old), but if that is the most devious thing then I can accept. 

At the moment I think I might just say nothing, and see what happens next week.  If there is still no payment, then I might make mention to the daughter, and if I take the first lesson as a loss, so be it...as I said, I have fun with what I do so if it gives me a loyal customer, then I can accept that as well.  I guess we can stay tuned for now  
Post Merge: March 09, 2015, 09:36:48 am
On another note, my friend says that she had a Famicom when she was younger, and that she thinks it is still at her grandparents' house (where she lives).  She said that if she can find it, it's mine, so we'll see

[L___E___T]

Maybe it's a Taiwanese Famicom!  I'd steer clear of renting and getting involved though - so the saying goes if something feels off, then it probably is, even if you can't quite put your finger on it yet.

[zmaster18]

I would just let her have lessons without asking for payment up to 3 times. Then when she requests more after that, politely say you'll be busy and stuff. Wait until she mentions payment, or offers you tasty treats, being taken out to lunch, or gifts like you mentioned. How much do you charge anyhow? Maybe getting nice stuff in exchange for the lessons is good enough.

I'm sure you'll be getting good karma out of this and will be rewarded with some nice stuff. 

[fcgamer]

Maybe it's a Taiwanese Famicom!  I'd steer clear of renting and getting involved though - so the saying goes if something feels off, then it probably is, even if you can't quite put your finger on it yet.

It certainly could be a Taiwanese Famicom, as my friend is in her 30s, so what she owned (owns?) most likely won't be some NOAC style clone.  Or maybe it is a Micro Genius or something.  I am quite curious in seeing what she has, though I never try to get my hopes up too high since most of the time, stuff like this won't end up materializing anyway.  But if she does dig up something, I'll post here whatever it is (though I wouldn't be selling it, since it would have more value to me than just some random stuff I find).  That reminds me, I have another friend here (Taiwanese-South African) that might have some stuff, or know of some friends that do.  I will have to ask him and his wife too, since they are around the right age.     Yay for Famicom   

As for renting, definitely not going to go that route.  I already have a nice place as it is, which my employer gives me for cost of utilities each month.  So I plan on staying, until I move from the area, get married, get a new job, etc.

[pic-mirandole]

Dave,

I have already had the opportunity to give private tuitions for 8 years (until last year) and I do admit I experienced lots of students/pupils as well as parents with "terms of payment"...
I do share your worries as I had (this was the worst experience) a student who was used to paying a part of the course and claimed her parents would give me the missing amount for the next tuitions. The next tuition, I was paid for the hours without the extra missing money, but she promised she will let her parents know (I was unfortunate to give tuitions while parents were not there  . After a set of 5-6 tuitions, she decided to stop following the courses since she was not satisfied by the effects of them (she was studying mathematics at high level and wasn't able to improve her level... I've never managed to get the missing money, but the most surprising was the guy who "hired" me for this student knew her and explained me she did the same thing with him when he gave her tuition one year ago...

To be honest, this part of the job was really entertaining when you have the feeling you can help children/teenagers to make progress, to get confident for their studies but it does not take a main part in my life since I have a full time job 

To go back to your issue, what you could do is to make sure that parents (or at least the mother) of your student will be there during the next tuition. If the student asks you why, you could explain you need to do a sort o "report" of your progress with the student in order to keep the parents informed and to let her/them know about how it goes.
It is not necessary that the parents are there during the whole course but I invite you to "tune" your next tuition date" so that the end fits with the moment when the parents are at home. I've done it for some students and it helped me to see the parent when I scarcely see them. In that case, take this opportunity to address the question of money and a "nice" way to tackle this "subject"  would be that you would appreciate to get paid because you would not remember the number of tuitions you've already made if you wait for a long time... Another way to deal with the payment is to know if the parents intend to pay by month (something like: "as for the payment, I was wondering if you wanted to pay per month for a set of tuitions since I haven't yet paid).

Just focus on asking them how they want to proceed in order not to avoid any "unconvient" position.

Pic.

[fcgamer]

Hi Pic, thanks for the response.  Maybe it was not so clear in my initial writing, but the woman I am giving lessons to IS the mother.  To tell matters in a simple way, basically at Job B I teach a group of adults.  Woman A is in this class, and although she is my English student, we became friends outside of class, like several of my other students (the class is all adults so sometimes we go running together in races, one of my adult students was even in a rock band with me before she even took my class).  Woman A always gives me a ride home after class, since she lives near me, so I don't have to take the bus.  One day she said that her mother wanted to improve her English, and asked me if I could give her mother private lessons.

Yesterday was the second day of lessons, and also no pay.  So I asked Woman A (my friend) about pay, asking what the pay schedule would be like.  She said that we could do it once a month, pay once a month, since it would be "easier".  She then asked if it would be a problem and I said that I guess it would be okay, and she said if I had any problems, to let her know. 

So I will just wait the month out and see what happens next.  Obviously if by the time next month rolls around there are some excuses and no payment, then I will just conveniently become too busy to continue the private lessons for the mother (Woman B) and just chalk up the extra lessons as a monetary loss but also as good karma for all of the times other people have helped me for free. 

The reality is that I already have a full time job and a part time job, so this money is just something extra that I don't really need, but would be nice to help get my finances realigned better.  I also enjoy what I am doing (the tutoring), so if the money never materializes, although I won't be happy about this outcome, I would just leave it at that and move on.  We'll see what happens, but I trust my friend so hopefully there is nothing strange afoot.

Last night I also began tutoring another student, and his parents paid me automatically after the first lesson.  This is how we do it in the States, and although I prefer this method best (I would rather have cash in hand should I need to make an emergency payment or something), I also asked another friend/colleague, who does private tutoring, and she says that her clients only pay her once a month (and this friend is a Taiwanese).  So it seems that any of the forms of payment are common here.  Here's hoping for the best

I'll keep you guys posted once something else happens (or doesn't happen). 

 

[L___E___T]

Once a month can work, but why wouldn't you pay at the start of the month?

[fcgamer]

Once a month can work, but why wouldn't you pay at the start of the month?

Totally agree with this sentiment, though it is so un-Taiwanese.  Taiwanese always pay around the 10th of the month, whatever they owe from the previous month.  At least that is how it is at all of the jobs I have had here.  Maybe because the mother student is a boss of a small company (basically she has a food stand near the coast), she feels it is standard procedure?

[MaxXimus]

maybe its just western culture, but I have always had to pay things like rent and phone bill a month in advance. it seems a bit fishy to only pay for a whole months services after you have received them. I have noticed at Asian culture revolves heavily around trust so it could be nothing to worry about. I hope for the best Dave.

[manuel]

Good luck with everything!
(And yes, that was me with the horror story about renting a house...)

It might be a cultural thing, but I still find how the women (both... kinda) are behaving is rude towards you. If you're doing somebody a favor (even if it's for money), it should be the receiver's part to initiate the money talk.

I'm also teaching a few people here in Japan and every single one of them has very diligently paid me at the end of the lesson. (Including the first one.)
Before the first lesson I always mention my price (usually in an email) alongside with other things, so there can hardly be misunderstandings.

So again, I hope everything goes fine!

[fcgamer]

Okay, an update.  Today I got paid, unexpectedly, for all of the back pay up until today's tutor lesson.  w00t! 

I had asked my friend again last week (the woman whom I'm tutoring's daughter) about the pay, and she had said that I would be paid on April 6th, when we had lessons.  Well it turns out that April 6th will be a public holiday here, so no classes that day, and thus I guess the daughter and mother decided to pay me today instead.  Full pay, no problems. 

I am quite glad that things resolved themselves in this way.  I am quite fond of the daughter, she is my student in a formal class, and I lend her dvds; in exchange, she sometimes helps me with practicing my scooter driving, and we sometimes go for late night snack together.  So I trust her, and am glad that things worked out without any funny business.  My dad recently had some funny business occur between him and someone he considered a friend at work (basically he was stabbed in the back), and thus I become extremely nervous when it comes time to mix friends and business all together...so I am glad things came to a good conclusion, without any struggles.

[MaxXimus]

Glad to hear it Dave! I am going through some crappy money issues right now so I know how stressful the situation can be(money). I'm glad that stress is off your shoulders.