Twin Famicom Controllers

[CkRtech]

Hey all -

First post. Looks like a great community with a bunch of information. This seems like the best place to be on the net for Famicom-related discussion, questions, and answers.

I only entered the import scene just recently (a few months ago), and I currently own a handful of disk games and a Sharp Twin Famicom.

The TF is a pretty slick machine. I wouldn't mind turning it into my primary NES/Famicom gaming device.

I have done some searching and reading on the forum, but I thought I would ask some questions in my own flavor -

The twin famicom controller cords are a bit too short for me. What controller alternatives do you guys recommend for the twin famicom? Is the side port connector (15 pin?) a standard connector for all famicoms (Nintendo, Sharp, etc..) or is it unique to the Sharp?

I would like to honestly plug in my NES dogbone controller if possible. This brings up a few other questions:

- Is the controller plug plug inside the twin famicom the same pinout as that of an original famicom? I was told that they were different, but I wanted to confirm that here.

- Are there any ways to obtain plugs/connectors for both the internal control port and the plugs on the sides of the twin famicom? Due to the distance from me to the TV, I would ideally like to obtain a NES controller extension cable (if they exist), cut the end off of the cord on the famicom side & wire-in a 15 pin connector (I assume the use of the 15 pins is to connect various other devices and the controller still uses the standard 7 leads (guessing on that one)

Worst case scenario I could attempt to wire the ext cable to the internal port of the twin famicom, however that would definitely leave a lot of "cord" hanging around when I am not using it.

Finally on a side note, what is the bootleg community like for disk games? I own those few disk games I mentioned, but I am curious if they are legit or not. Not because they look like they aren't....but I don't have a way of knowing. (They are yellow)

That's it for now, I think.

[kite200]

alright, its alot less technical then opening up and performing mods. the ext port on the side of the system is a standard famicom ext port; any famicom accessory plugs in there. you can buy a controller with a longer cord (generally third party) or even a wireless one, and plug it in.

as for pirate disks, yeah, its a big problem, but, its very easy to tell if they are pirated. post a pic of your games and I can tell you if they are legit or not.


EDIT:

here's a wireless one you can buy http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-FAMICOM-WIRELESS-COMMANDER-JAPAN_W0QQitemZ300088712526QQihZ020QQcategoryZ49230QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem

[133MHz]

Yup, the 15-pin connector is the best idea. The cable doesn't even have to be very long (for the controller) because you can buy/wire yourself a 15-pin extension cable from any decent computer store.

Installing NES joystick connectors on the Twin would be the best compatibility-wise idea (they could be even wired in parallel with the built-in controllers and you can install a switch somewhere that cuts the +5V line for the built-in controllers to disable them), but it requires modding the console, drilling holes, long story short, reducing its aesthetic value.

[kite200]

reducing it's value to zero is more like it. then the second controller wouldnt have the mic and you couldnt lower shop prices in kid icarus

[CkRtech]

Thanks for the replies.

kite200 - Thanks for the link. Wireless, eh? I assume it is probably infrared. Might be worth a shot....but I think I may try the cable idea - that will pretty much allow me to hook up whatever NES accessories I want (barring odd compatibility issues) via the 15 pin port.

Looks like the main thing I'll have to find is a NES controller port plug. I would prefer to not part out a nintendo or 4 player adapter for it. We'll see what google turns up.

[satoshi_matrix]

Q:  What controller alternatives do you guys recommend for the twin famicom?
A: Every version of the Famicom features short cords. There isn't much you can do about the controllers unless major modding which can destroy your system. The EXT port accessories have cords of approximitely the same length, so there isn't too many options for longer cords.

Q: Is the side port connector (15 pin?) a standard connector for all famicoms (Nintendo, Sharp, etc..) or is it unique to the Sharp?
A: All Famicoms use this EXT port. It's used for things such as the Family BASIC keyboard, the Family Computer Joystick (think Famicom NES Advantage) or Hudson turbo controllers. The list is much longer, but those all the ones I own and I can't think of any others right now

I would like to honestly plug in my NES dogbone controller if possible
A: Impossible without major modding to both the controller and the system

Q: Is the controller plug plug inside the twin famicom the same pinout as that of an original famicom?
A: Yes they are.

Q Are there any ways to obtain plugs/connectors for both the internal control port and the plugs on the sides of the twin famicom?
A: Not that I know of. You'd need to be a pretty good techinical wizard to be able to do such a feat. So while not impossible, it would prove rather difficult.

Q: What is the bootleg community like for disk games?
A: Defenetely smaller than the Famicom pirate scene. The Disk System, ultimitely a failure, was not paid much attention to during its hayday and espically not today. Pirate disks are easy to determine. First bu the color. If they are anything but yellow or in rare cases light blue and don't have Nintendo ingraved into them, they are pirates. 


Personally, I would recommend against the Sharp Famicom for total use. The AV Famicom is much better. It requires hookup to a disk system yes, but its overall a better console. AV suport, universal unpluggable controllers compatible with US controllers as well as Japanese, still has the EXT port, and is a much smaller, sleeker, sexier machene!

[CkRtech]

Hi satoshi_matrix. Thank you for your replies -

A few things to address:

Dogbone controller - You mentioned this wasn't possible without major modding to both the controller and the system. Can you be more specific? I suppose it depends on your definition of "major" in regard to modding, but I see this as simply a make a cable type of scenario - no modding of the controller or the system is necessary. I understand if we are talking about the zapper or the arkanoid controller, but it looks like this is a soldering job - 5 pins of a 7-pin male NES controller port to 5 pins of a standard female DA-15 connector. What major mods were you referring to?

Regarding obtaining plugs/connectors for both the interal control port and plugs, etc...I am not sure you understood my question. I was simply asking about obtaining the connectors - nothing technical about it. The external port is a standard DA-15 connector (as mentioned). The NES controller port is essentially a NES "male plug" for a controller.

You mentioned the AV famicom being better, but I disagree. The Twin Famicom has native AV output, disk system built in, and in my opinion looks much better than the AV famicom which I have hated since 1993. Hahaha (but this is a topic for another thread).

[kite200]

um satoshi the twin famicom has av, a mic in the second controller, built in turbo buttons (on the second model), and a built in disk system.


the twin is better than the av in every way possible

[madman]

the twin is better than the av in every way possible

Not in size.

[133MHz]

Maybe you can just buy black 5-wire cable of the desired length (or grab it from two donor American NES controllers, the ones with freaking long cables) and 'extend' the original Twin controller cables (open the controllers, open the console, remove the original short cables and replace them with the long cables). I see it as a very good idea, no messy connectors and mods, and only little soldering skills required.

EDIT: BTW, for the mic you may need an extra wire pair, I've never seen a Famicom, so I don't know anything about the microphone circuit

[satoshi_matrix]

CkRtech: The dogbone controller, weither the NES2 version or AV Famicom version has the same ending lead seven pin US-style NES pinouts. What you would need to do is dissassemble the system, examine the pin connection points of the Twin, isolate the leads you need (which is easier said than done), cut them off with wire clippers, strip the wire leads, cut off the AV Famicom end, strip the wires and resoder the whole thing and hope to hell the thing works afterwords. If that's a breeze to you then go right ahead. To me  at least that would be a rather major modding job. I wish you luck if you decide to do it.


kite200: but it also has a number its own problems. It still has the wired unreoveable controllers, a difficult to replace drive belt (the bane of my Famicom experience by far) and its sheer bulk.

And come on.lets be honest here...the mic in controller 2 is almost as useless as the Family Robot or 3D Glasses. Its used only in a few games and even without the funtunality the games still play the same. The turbo buttons are nice, I agree, but I like the idea of exchanging controllers as the situation calls for it.

Ultimitely I think the AV Famicom + defult Disk System is a superior choice over the Twin, but that's my opinion and not nessesarily a fact. Each has its pros and cons.

133MHz: I agree with this option, but I would suggest leaving controller 2 the way it is. You dont want to be messing with the controller unless you have to.

[CkRtech]

CkRtech: The dogbone controller, weither the NES2 version or AV Famicom version has the same ending lead seven pin US-style NES pinouts. What you would need to do is dissassemble the system, examine the pin connection points of the Twin, isolate the leads you need (which is easier said than done), cut them off with wire clippers, strip the wire leads, cut off the AV Famicom end, strip the wires and resoder the whole thing and hope to hell the thing works afterwords. If that's a breeze to you then go right ahead. To me  at least that would be a rather major modding job. I wish you luck if you decide to do it.

Well I modded a Sega Genesis for S-video & made an arcade stick for the 360, so that sort of thing doesn't sound like that big of a deal.

However I don't see why it needs to be that complex. I realize there are two leads that are used on the 7 pin NES controller that are not going to go hand in hand with the 15 pin connector - but as far as I know, they are only used for things like the NES zapper and arkanoid controller.

I don't think I need to start doing traces on the circuits. So long as the controllers operate the same way it should only be a matter of matching the pinouts for the 7 pin and the 15 pin and making the appropriate connections. Again - all external work. There is some documentation available online, however the only one I have found so far that has 15 pin famicom pinouts is gamesx, and their documentation seems to be incorrect for the NES, so I question their famicom pinout. I may send them an e-mail and see what is up.

[kite200]

CkRtech: The dogbone controller, weither the NES2 version or AV Famicom version has the same ending lead seven pin US-style NES pinouts. What you would need to do is dissassemble the system, examine the pin connection points of the Twin, isolate the leads you need (which is easier said than done), cut them off with wire clippers, strip the wire leads, cut off the AV Famicom end, strip the wires and resoder the whole thing and hope to hell the thing works afterwords. If that's a breeze to you then go right ahead. To me  at least that would be a rather major modding job. I wish you luck if you decide to do it.


kite200: but it also has a number its own problems. It still has the wired unreoveable controllers, a difficult to replace drive belt (the bane of my Famicom experience by far) and its sheer bulk.

And come on.lets be honest here...the mic in controller 2 is almost as useless as the Family Robot or 3D Glasses. Its used only in a few games and even without the funtunality the games still play the same. The turbo buttons are nice, I agree, but I like the idea of exchanging controllers as the situation calls for it.

Ultimitely I think the AV Famicom + defult Disk System is a superior choice over the Twin, but that's my opinion and not nessesarily a fact. Each has its pros and cons.

133MHz: I agree with this option, but I would suggest leaving controller 2 the way it is. You dont want to be messing with the controller unless you have to.

The belt is just as easy to replace as a normal disk system, if you are arguing that you are using a disk system with the AV, then saying that the belt is hard to replace on the twin makes no sense because you still have to replace it on a normal disk drive as well.

Why would you ever exchange the controllers, and even if you needed to, it has an EXT port. IMO not having the mic in controller 2 makes kid icarus a hell of a lot harder so its not worth having an AV if you are going to play that game ever, and most people will be playing kid icarus since it's such a great game.The twin famicom is smaller than a ps2 or xbox 360, and is about the same size as if you put the av famicom and disk system you attach side by side. And since when does size on a video game console really matter anyway

[satoshi_matrix]

CkRtech: wow you sound good! Any chances you could post a walk through on how to mod the Geneis for S-video? That's something I want to do myself as the Genesis AV is rather weak, even as AV goes.

[CkRtech]

Ahh man. It would definitely take some photographs and work to get it all out there.

I actually did this about 5 years ago. It also depends on the system you are modding. (I hope I have my facts straight here). The Genesis 2 uses the 1603 (that's totally a guess) video chip which is the same one used in the Sony PSX (the original). It has the "legs" on the chip to pull the Y/C signal straight off the chip.

I own a Genesis 1 and 2, but at the time I am not sure if I had the 2 or not. I ended up modding a JVC X'Eye. (Are you familiar with it?) It actually required a bit more work and some additional caps in the circuit. The color was always a bit too saturated for my tastes. I tried knocking down the caps that I used in order to back down the color, but never quite got it where I want it. I think it was damaged during the last mod or during transport (moving from one city to another) because I don't have a color signal anymore (on composite as well). I probably need to suck up some solder and do some clean up work in order to get it going again.

Unfortunately, I don't have as much free time as I did back then to work on the mod.

If you want to attempt it, then let's do it. I can try to answer some questions, but it is going to take a little bit of research. I lost my documents (pinouts) a few years ago.

Do you have some basic tech knowledge of S-video - Chroma, Luma and grounds? Pretty good with a soldering iron?

Dang it man...now you have me wanting to bust out the X'Eye again. haha