Rules regarding selling so-called "repros"

[L___E___T]

 
The thing is with marking a label - what's to stop someone stickering it or just making a new label?  isn't it a bit moot?

As I saw it mentioned above as well - CodeMasters games are NOT bootlegs.  They are a UK-based developer / publisher and many NES games came from them back in the day just as legit as a Capcom USA release.  The difference is that they figured out how to circumvent the lockout chip (they would backward engineer all hardware even beyond Megadrive).

So in the US - they actively chose not to pay the aggressive licensing fees that many developers/publishers felt were already exploitative but had no choice but to pay.  So when their products were successful in the PAL markets via the official route, they tried to go it alone in the North American markets maintain margin, hence the situation.  They are not really bootlegs in the sense of how Magic Dragon / KickMaster could be considered, made by a little outfit in a pretty much unsupported market.

I have a CodeMasters unreleased pre-alpha cartridge from late Megadrive era, from one of the Producers there at the time, who's told me about all sorts of interesting things about NES days.

[jensma]

Care to share some pictures of the pre alpha cartridge?

[fcgamer]

If the Codemasters games are not bootlegs (my opinion), then the Sachen games, Idea-Tek games, Micro Genius games, Asder games, etc are also NOT bootlegs.  The latter software houses were from Taiwan, the former from the UK, but otherwise the stories are the same...not wanting to pay the money so they circumvented the lockout chip.  Some of the Sachen games have infringing IP (Rocman X, Gaiapolis), but the others are all using original IP. 

Regarding your point on marking a label:  I think this very thread (as well as the others on here regarding the subject) show why although it might initially seem a moot point, marking the labels would actually be quite useful. 

Not enough collectors (in the West anyway) care about collecting full sets of unlicensed original games, or even collecting more than a few for the novelty of it.  As such, although many of these games are incredibly rare compared to their licensed kin, most are overlooked aside from a few popular titles (and as such, most don't sell for huge gobs of cash, aside from the popular titles like Super Mario World).  j

So due to the reasonably low price point for most carts, people that want the real deal would just buy the real ones anyway, not buying the repro and doing a label swap.  But because the uniformity of unlicensed games is not so great, and even the same game might have had three different print runs in several different shells (all legit releases from the original manufacturer), the gesture of marking the cart would be a nod to those that do collect the originals, since otherwise, repro carts of unlicensed games + generic unlicensed / bootleg shells = something that looks like it could have been made at the factory. 

The thing is with marking a label - what's to stop someone stickering it or just making a new label?  isn't it a bit moot?

As I saw it mentioned above as well - CodeMasters games are NOT bootlegs.  They are a UK-based developer / publisher and many NES games came from them back in the day just as legit as a Capcom USA release.  The difference is that they figured out how to circumvent the lockout chip (they would backward engineer all hardware even beyond Megadrive).

So in the US - they actively chose not to pay the aggressive licensing fees that many developers/publishers felt were already exploitative but had no choice but to pay.  So when their products were successful in the PAL markets via the official route, they tried to go it alone in the North American markets maintain margin, hence the situation.  They are not really bootlegs in the sense of how Magic Dragon / KickMaster could be considered, made by a little outfit in a pretty much unsupported market.

I have a CodeMasters unreleased pre-alpha cartridge from late Megadrive era, from one of the Producers there at the time, who's told me about all sorts of interesting things about NES days.

[chowder]

I understand where the concerns come from, but a lot of the discussion seems to be related to semantics over what constitutes a non-original game or bootleg, and the vast majority of people on this forum just won't care. 

Marking the labels in some way would be great, perhaps that could become a standard for newly produced repros/bootlegs/whatever sold here, but it would be a splash in the ocean given the number of high quality Chinese carts available (for all systems) nowadays.  It could be a nice gesture though perhaps?

Personally I don't have a problem with any bootlegs/pirates, but then I'm not a collector.  Again, I completely understand opposition to their sale here, or even their existence in the first place, I just don't see what can be realistically done about it.  They will continue to exist and be produced regardless of the stance FW takes on it.

[80sFREAK]

...it would be a splash in the ocean given the number of high quality Chinese carts available (for all systems) nowadays....

...They will continue to exist and be produced regardless of the stance FW takes on it.

Brilliant!

[fcgamer]

The Aliexpress stuff is hardly what I would call high quality.  The late 1980s and early 1990s stuff was much superior quality.

I just don't think it is right to be making what amounts to 1:1 copies of games.  The Aliexpress stuff isn't 1:1, though it sometimes can be confused with the originals.  Likewise, if (when) people make 1:1 copies of the high-end licensed games, people always throw a fit, and rightfully so.  For unlicensed games, the situation should be no different.  Add some reproduction words or something like that to the label, and call it a day.  it makes everyone happy in the end.

[chowder]

The Aliexpress stuff is hardly what I would call high quality.  The late 1980s and early 1990s stuff was much superior quality.

I'm not going to post links, but there are copies of high value SNES/SFC games on there that are (from the outside at least) pretty much identical to the originals.  Maybe they haven't got around to Famicom yet, but if prices rise high enough I'm sure they would.

[L___E___T]

 


If those do come across to FW they will get some significant flak at best and a hasty removal at worst..

[80sFREAK]

So, SMW for $79 is ok? 

[fcgamer]

So, SMW for $79 is ok? 

Is $69 for a reproduced fake okay?  I paid a lot for the one I am selling, and I always take best offers (everyone here always gets a discount when I sell, let's just be honest about it).  So for the price I paid for mine (at auction), if I give a $10 discount and nix paypal fees, I make $20 profit at most.  Lol, and you think I am getting rich on this?

[80sFREAK]

fcgamer, i told you, i have nothing to discuss with you.

[fcgamer]

fcgamer, i told you, i have nothing to discuss with you.

To be quite frank about it, it would behoove us both to cut out the disrespect and sniping with each other. 

If you were in Taiwan, I would offer to meet with you for a beer or two, and to discuss things like men. 

To stonewall me is just an act of immaturity on your side.  If you were willing to talk, maybe we could have reached some middle ground that would be acceptable to us both; however, to just refuse to talk with me (even with PM), and just to pick fights, it totally changes my outlook on the "scene". 

No more hardware p0rn pics for you or anyone else, when I finish scanning the Whirlwind Manu catalog, it will be shared privately, watermarks go on the future pictures I take, etc.  This all stems from your general attitude and being unwilling to even talk, as men, about the subject at hand to reach a middle ground.

[MaxXimus]

That settles that. Thread locked. If a mod disagrees, feel free to reopen, but I think this thread has served its purpose.