Family BASIC

[manuel]

It says that it is used for adding those little dots (nigori) to katakana to make voiced consonants (e.g.  te　テ -> de　デ)

It's also used to input "graphic symbols" from the upper row of keys on the keyboard.

[Rogles]

Ok, I've heard those Japanese diacritic marks called dakuten, handakuten, plosive markers, and tentens. What's the official name?

[UglyJoe]

It says that it is used for adding those little dots (nigori) to katakana to make voiced consonants (e.g.  te　テ -> de　デ)

It's also used to input "graphic symbols" from the upper row of keys on the keyboard.

Aha!  So it does.  I never thought to try it while it was in kana mode.  Thanks!

[manuel]

Glad to be of help. 

[UglyJoe]

So I've been trying to get the SAVE/LOAD thing to work.  Like many computers from its time, it saves and loads data onto an audio cassette.  Rather than using a cassette, I've been trying to get it to work through the line-in and line-out on my computer. 

The first computer I tried was too noisy -- to the point where I couldn't get clean playback.  I tried it on my laptop and got a really clean recording.  The problem is...it doesn't work.  When I try to load it back to the Famicom, it acts like nothing is happening.

When it's working properly, it should look like this:

Code Select Expand


SAVE"TEST"
WRITING TEST
OK


That part works.  I can playback the recording on my computer and it sounds like modem noise.  I'm assuming that's correct.

The loading part should look like this:

Code Select Expand


LOAD"TEST"
LOADING TEST
OK


That part doesn't work.  I type in the load command, hit return, then press play on my computer (I have the line-out wired to the FC's line-in).  The FC just sits there, though.  I never get a "LOADING TEST" response.

I'm curious if anyone has had any luck getting Family Basic to save/load at all.  Also, if you've used this kind of saving/loading with an audio cassette with some other old computer, can you let me know of any tricks you used to get things working?  Any info is appreciated.

[133MHz]

I'm very familiar with the audio cassette data storage mechanism of Atari 8-bit computers (in fact I was involved in a project about cracking a very successful turbo loading circuitry for it), so I've had plenty of experience (and frustration) with cassette data storage .

Noisy audio? that could be a series of factors:

• Audio cable going bad or internally miswired.


• Faulty Famicom power adapter (dry main filter capacitor introducing AC ripple on the voltage rail - Family BASIC keyboard poses a significant power drain that could bring a faulty capacitor to its knees, even if everything else works fine).


• Ground loop issues (Famicom shouldn't be grounded, probably it's getting grounded through your TV your your Cable TV system if you have one, or CATV system is at some voltage potential). Try unplugging CATV coax connector, lift TV and/or computer's ground prong.


• Erratic software configuration, like the Line-in input is acting as a Microphone input and it's trying to bias the line and applying wrong amplification. Modern 'smart' audio cards tend to suffer from this problem.

If the Famicom isn't listening anything, that's most certainly a volume issue. As with most old computers, you'll have to test a wide range of volume levels until you find one that works. Some computers like the ZX spectrum like their audio inputs VERY LOUD, while others get overloaded if the volume is more than barely up. Also a faulty/miswired cable could be playing a role here. Maybe the Famicom is expecting the data in one specific channel, or both.

Also, check for cold solder joints on the Famicom keyboard's line-in plug, and squirt some contact cleaner into it, it could be dirty and/or broken and not letting audio get through.

Hey UglyJoe, could you post a recording of some audio data from the Family BASIC keyboard? I love old computer data sounds and I'm dying to hear how does the Famicom BASIC data sounds like

[UglyJoe]

Here's an audio sample:
http://ximwix.net/storage/background.wma

Thanks for the advice.  Still not working, but you gave me some more things to try.  Namely, I made the assumption that the input/output was mono.  It's possible I'm playing back on the wrong channel or even that I've been neglecting a channel altogether.

edit:

Stereo cable makes no difference.  It seems to only send audio over the left channel.  Sending audio back out over the right channel didn't seem to have any effect either.

[Arctic Feather]

Ok, I've heard those Japanese diacritic marks called dakuten, handakuten, plosive markers, and tentens. What's the official name?

Dakuten is the 2 dots in the top right  (Tenten is more of a slang word for it I think).  Handakuten is the little circle in the top right.

[133MHz]

Thanks for the audio! . The blocks are really short and the IRGs (Inter-Record Gaps) are really long.

BTW I think I've found your problem: The recording is too damn low. Taking a look at the file on my favorite audio editing application, I can see that the waveform is almost flat, and when playing the oscilloscope trace barely moves. There's no way it would work like that, serious data loss entails. Also I can hear a faint electronic-like noise but that may be unavoidable.

If you're plugging the keyboard directly to the sound card inputs, then you need to use an amplifier in between for record & playback (a pair of amplified computer speakers or a small stereo system will do). When recording, try to get the waveform's amplitude at least half or 3/4 of the available height, and for playback, use the amplifier to vary the volume of the audio sent to the keyboard. As a bonus, using the amplifier will allow to to lower the computer's recording & playback internal volumes, reducing the amount of electronic noise on the lines.

For the record (I assume you already know this but I'm going to say it anyway): Don't use lossy audio compression formats like MP3 or WMA to store computer audio data. The reason is left as an exercise for the reader .

[UglyJoe]

Thanks again for the info!

The audio coming out of the keyboard isn't amplified.  I plugged a set of headphones into it and it's very faint.  I had my mic boost turned on at first, but that "faint electronic-like noise" gets a big boost, too.  Definitely too noisy.  So, what you heard is about as clean as I could get it.  I'll try it again tonight with an external amplifier.

And, yeah, I'm aware of the WMA issue.  Vista's sound recorder is horribly gimped.  I'll install Audacity tonight (which I really should have done at the beginning...wasn't really thinking straight last night).

[133MHz]

BTW, don't use the Mic input on your PC, use the Line in input. The Mic input is specifically designed for crappy PC electret-type microphones, it puts out +5V for microphone power and applies a weird audio amplification curve to the signal that makes anything other than a microphone sound like utter crap. The line in input is the purest audio input you can get.

[UglyJoe]

Ha!  Using wav instead of wma and an external amp did the trick.  Thanks so much.  I can finally get around to using this thing.

I tried using the external amp and wma -- it gets a tape error when it gets to the file name (the first quick blip)

[133MHz]

Glad to be of help .

Can I have a good audio sample now plz?

[UglyJoe]

I'm typing up a sample program from one of the books I got with it.  I'll post the file when I'm done.

edit: here you go: http://ximwix.net/storage/wrap.wav

[133MHz]

Thanks for the audio sample! That sounds a lot better

I've been trying the LOAD and SAVE commands on my pirate BASIC thing, and they don't seem to work. I only get a ?SN ERROR