Interest check! New high quality Famicom mini PCBs with sockets for ppu and cpu

[aarkay14]

Dear All

I have learnt how to make circuit boards and everything with eagle and want to reproduce the Famicom PCB..  Please let me know if you are interested to buy a brand new high quality PCB for the same! If there is less interest then I will not start this project..

This will not be a drop in replacement for the Famicom but a new Pcb with sockets for cpu and ppu. It will be a brand new Pcb smaller in size but working with Hi Def NES and NESRGB and fully compatible!

It will be a 2Oz copper and gold plated high quality PCB if all goes well.

-Rama

[jpx72]

Something I would be very interested in, but
#1) the price for me is too much
#2) have you enough experience in components placement/ choosing the best parts to make a "really good" design? Drawing is not everything and when you finish, there will be many voices speaking what could you have done better...

Just an idea:
It will be awesome if you will consider to re-draw the original board and consider selling bare boards only for self soldering of components. Of course making it with SMD parts -again- will not be interesting (needs more soldering skills)...Reproducing a board like CPU-GPM-02(f) will be easily solderable even without extra soldering skills, that's what I'm after!
Of course the power / RF part of the board should be custom  AND also the AV mod...(another part for discussion).
A bare board, must not be gold plated to ensure reasonable price, will be awesome and I'm all in. If you draw it, pcb making websites like itead.cc can make such board for (much) less than $20/piece.
Hell now I'm considering donating you cash for your work, and releasing the gerbers(pcb drawings) public!

[aarkay14]

Thank you for the response jpx72! I agree to everything you said! we want the best design! I will request all to send in their ideas here! And I will take a note! We can even make partially soldered with the SMD and stuff... and you can put in your parts separately!

-Rama

[krzy]

Gold plating? There are no connectors nor high frequency so no point of using that.

I was going to make famicom's PCB with the following points:
* main use is to put in in some existing fami-clone shell (to reuse it if the original PCB is broken),
* put header for connecting another (existing) PCB with joypad sockets & power/reset buttons. Hopefully, there are 3 standards (18 pin, 11 pin and 20 pin used only  in IQ502 rev 3),
* put 4 pin header for audio/video/+5V/GND to connect third PCB with power supply,
* use 62256 (or 6264) memories as RAM as they are more popular,
* if you could fit in 10cm x 10cm (which will be tricky), you could order it in most china companies for 12-15$ shipped for 10pcs.

[aarkay14]

Gold plating? There are no connectors nor high frequency so no point of using that.

I was going to make famicom's PCB with the following points:
* main use is to put in in some existing fami-clone shell (to reuse it if the original PCB is broken),
* put header for connecting another (existing) PCB with joypad sockets & power/reset buttons. Hopefully, there are 3 standards (18 pin, 11 pin and 20 pin used only  in IQ502 rev 3),
* put 4 pin header for audio/video/+5V/GND to connect third PCB with power supply,
* use 62256 (or 6264) memories as RAM as they are more popular,
* if you could fit in 10cm x 10cm (which will be tricky), you could order it in most china companies for 12-15$ shipped for 10pcs.

This is a good start..  But can they ship assembled PCBs in 12 USD? I think this is too less.. I am thinking the below properties :

1. New technologies for RAM and power
2.Smd components for smaller footprint but spacious for both NESRGB and high Def NES.
3. 4 controller ports! With NES style port sockets
4. Multi AV sockets at the back for full rgb and composite and stereo audio knob.

Fully assembled max 100USD. Only put ppu and cpu and let it run!

-Rama

[krzy]

100 USD? Lol, when I made new famiclone PCB from scratch, fully assembled, with PCB etched and drilled in home, I sold it for ~25 USD

http://obrazki.elektroda.pl/9560129100_1496602879.jpg
http://obrazki.elektroda.pl/9368560300_1496602881.jpg
http://obrazki.elektroda.pl/2470718000_1496602883.jpg
http://obrazki.elektroda.pl/6660570700_1496602885.jpg
http://obrazki.elektroda.pl/7760701000_1496602887.jpg
http://obrazki.elektroda.pl/8572866300_1496602889.jpg

Short estimation:
CPU+PPU 3$,
WRAM + VRAM: 2$,
74139+2x74368+74273: 2$
60 pin socket: 2$,
2xDB9+db15 sockets: 1$,
7805: 0.25$
DC + audio + video RCA sockets  1$
reset + power switchs: 0.5$
resistors/capacitors + transistors + crystal + DIL sockets: 2$,

PCB 200mm x 100mm:  from PCB way you can order 20 pieces for 103$ shipped, so lets asume 5$/piece

Cost is ~20$ for pieces, soldering - if you project the pcb whe wise way (*), shouldn't take more than 20 minutes, so I dont know how u charge your work, but i wouldn't count more than 20$

Time to project the PCB: it might  take around 20-40 hours, depending on skills, but this cost should be distributet over the set.

(*) - SMD parts are better - you don't have to waste time for bending & clipping legs. Also, have in ming that if you use many different values for resistors & capacitors, lot of time is wasted for taking them from the parts bin.
For example, the crystal-based clock generator has a lot of different values for caps & resistors, or the audio mixing circuit.

I wouldnt count for the assembled PCB more than 50$.

[aarkay14]

Wow thats great! I didn't know how much it will cost hence I said 100 USD! I think u have already achieved what I want to do so ill not redo this..

-Rama

[FAMICOM_87]

krzy, wow nice work! 
I was thinking of making famicom/NES PCB for Atari Jaguar shell I have one not working Jaguar lying around and I just love the design of it's shell, and the  famicom is my favorite system l 

[Retrospectives]

We printed exact replica of the Famicom PCB back in the day, and we got it down to a production price around what Krzy is boiling it down to. Not into that business anymore (no equipment and moved back home to JP) but basically yeah, he is totally right and Krzy is a very knowleadgeable person when it comes to this.

When it comes to RGB out it can be implemented as well. I remember we experimented with an FPGA PPU to implement RGB and got it up and running, but that was more of experimental board with UMD chips and such thing instead of genuine from Nintendo but I would say is totally possible but cannot just slam an RGB connector directly to the Famicom PCB, hence why need to use some type of additional hardware for RGB out.

[krzy]

If I would be using the prefabricated PCB in factory then yeah, price around 35$ for soldered PCB with components could be OK.

You shouldn't forget about the issue with shell. If you want to use existing shell, you should know its dimension and places where to drill mounting holes in PCB as well as where to put connectors/button.

But more universal approach is as I said, pre use existing PCBs with connectors.

I really don't know if putting 4 joypad ports is reasonable. As I remember, there are only a few games using it but there is still  incompability between Famicom's 4 joypad and NES four score (and if you would make it compatible with NES four score, you will probably need extra chip)

If you use UA6528 + UA6527 then you will get NTSC version, 100% compatible with Famicom.
If you use UA6538 + UA6527P then you will get PAL (dendy) version but not 100% compatible with PAL NES (some games wont work or will have shaking image). Also, chips made before 30th week of 1990 have some issues.

I don't have much experience with RGB but you can't get RGB video without :
1. using PlayChoice's PPU
or
2. using PPU implementation on FPGA
or
3. making some addon board to existing PPU like this one: https://etim.net.au/nesrgb/ If I think correctly, it sniffes the CPU-PPU bus and sniffes what data PPU outputs on pins 14-16 and basing on it, it generates RGB value for each pixel that PPU renders. It is bases on EPM240 CPLS which is not expensive but still there is need to program it (author probably does not publish the firmware)



Some other consoles that I made:
https://obrazki.elektroda.pl/1307007200_1529513638.jpg
https://obrazki.elektroda.pl/7222706300_1529513639.jpg
https://obrazki.elektroda.pl/3751594600_1529513668.jpg
https://obrazki.elektroda.pl/7281466900_1529513670.jpg

[aarkay14]

Ok I really didn't know about the prices! Hence I marked it max 100 USD..  But now from the comments I understand that its cheaper even when made in the factory.. I will check it out..

-Rama

[jpx72]

Oh krzy! You are my god! You already have a famicom board drawn! Would you share the gerbers? Or sell?

[aarkay14]

Ok after thinking a lot I have started building the schematics.. Cuz I cant help it and I love the Famicom.. It will not have 4 player support but will have expansion port..i Will send the final board to fab and let you guys know how it actually costs to get 1 high quality Famicom PCB made!

[P]

Wow reproduced Famicoms you make at home! This is great stuff!! I'm interested!

Now if the CPUs and PPUs could be reproduced as well it would be perfect!

I would want a repro-Fami that can do everything a real Famicom can do, which means it would need the Famicom controller ports, or at least the microphone circuit in the second controller.

SMD wouldn't be very good for home soldering though would it? I don't think I can solder SMD with my tools anyway. Plus SMD has shorter life.

I imagine an ideal universal Famicom would have both Famicom and NES ports for controllers (including the unique lines for NES to make NES-exclusive accessories work), expansion ports and cartridge connectors, switchable CPUs and PPUs and switchable NTSC and PAL modes. There are many little differences between models though, like the NES connecting both CPU and PPU to RESET while Famicom only connects CPU to it.

[prince tomato]

yup.
i'd be all over that once it is available.
also, just a thought, something that only few people would want i guess, but the ability to switch between pal ppu, cpu+xtal, and ntsc chipset+xtal would be awesome.
again, that is probably not viable because of added size and cost, but something i would really love to see one day.