Hudson's Famicom joystick diagonal movement

[Preki]

So I recently bought the famous Hudson Soft's Famicom joystick. Yes, the one used in their All-Japan Caravan Tournaments for several years. The thing works overall great, buttons are responsive, as well as the stick itself, though it seems to be a bit wobbly. However, it seems that I can't move my ship diagonally in Star Force, Star Soldier etc., and this is crucial in shmups, needless to say. Is this normal or should I fix it? Anyone out there owns this controller and can say something about it?

[P]

Which exact Hudson Joystick is this?

It doesn't sound normal to not be able to use all 8 directions.

[Preki]

Which exact Hudson Joystick is this?

Model HC62-3, to be precise.

Yes, there's definitely something wrong with it It's impossible to play shmups without diagonal movement, and this joystick here was used in tournaments. I'll try to disassemble the poor thing when I'll have a bit of free time.

[P]

I wonder why it's popular in tournaments, looks like a typical plastic home joystick of its time. These tournaments are not sponsored by Hudson/Konami or something?


If you have an Everdrive, FDSStick or similar programmable device, I've made a test program for this type of diagnosing here (ROM and disk image). You should at least be able to see if any switches are not functioning cleanly when holding them down.

[Preki]

These tournaments are not sponsored by Hudson/Konami or something?

These tournaments were held by Hudson Soft itself in 1985 (Star Force), 1986 (Star Soldier) and 1987 (Hector '87). And yes, they used this very joystick as a standard controller, which is not surprising, being also manufactured by Hudson. It was also available in retail just like any other Famicom accessory, but due to its use in Caravan competitions (and Takahashi's legendary "16 shots per second") it has become a valuable collectible.

If you have an Everdrive, FDSStick or similar programmable device, I've made a test program for this type of diagnosing here (ROM and disk image). You should at least be able to see if any switches are not functioning cleanly when holding them down.

So far I used the official Famicom test software and it could barely read diagonal inputs, they were so brief that any of the games couldn't move the ship through the screen. I'll check out this program of yours soon

[P]

I see, well it looks better than a joypad for doing the Meijin finger 16-shot technique.
These joysticks usually has a spring to center it and various cheaper alternatives to microswitches, including rubber membrane on conductive pads directly on a PCB like joypads has. In that case the pads may just need cleaning if you are lucky I guess.

[Preki]

Okay, I cleaned the thing thoroughly, still barely to no diagonal movement at all. All the plastics and rubber pads inside are not broken/torn. Either I don't know what I'm doing or worse - the joystick was supposed to have four directions only, but I higly doubt that.

[P]

Hmm, but since diagonal triggering are just combinations of two adjacent switches like UP+LEFT or DOWN+RIGHT, that means if all 4 orthogonal directions works the diagonals should also work automatically. Only if the stick is physically blocked from traveling to the diagonal positions would there be a problem (like is the case for 4-way joysticks used with some arcade games like Donkey Kong and Pacman), unless there is some weird electronic problem that blocks double signals.

Does the stick physically reach all 8 directions? I really doubt it's not an 8-way joystick but something might be clogging it forcing it to become 4-way.
Some 8-way joysticks also has a switch or lever to make them 4-way. On real arcade joysticks you have to unscrew and change a guide gate at the bottom to make them mechanically 4-way or 2-way, but for home joysticks there are also electronic solutions which blocks the signal if two directions are triggered at the same time making them electrically 4-way.


Maybe a photo of the PCB would help in some way.


I searched for the stick on the internet and apparently there is an extra A-button on top of the joystick shaft, pretty cool.

[fredJ]

I've had two and they were both very stiff diagonally.

Even has a note that says "stiff diagonally" on this one that someone modded.


Probably an age thing.

If anyone is interested, I should have it somewhere, unless I threw it away.