Famicom Problem

[80sFREAK]

Ok, let's continue...

So i found RAM adapter with similar problem. PCB is Revision 03 and DRAM is 4 16k*4 chips and CHR RAM is SONY CXK5864P-15. A bit slow, but chip is original, so i open few others  to be sure about timing of CHR RAM. All the same chips.
Next step - resoldered slot just in case and cleaned PCB after.

Nothing changed.
Resoldered CHR RAM chip and got i bit weird result - glitch still present, but a bit different way. After running test for a while glitch developed little bit.
Ok, let's replace RAM. Soldered socket and plugged Hyundai 8k*8 100ns SRAM

- all glitches gone. Win?! Not yet,  i found another CXK5864P-15 chip and plugged into FDS. Guess what? Glitch appeared again, but more "weak" and random. 100ns chip back - all good.

So... AFAIK CXK5864P-15L usually used as WRAM for saves and might be used in RAM adaptor somewhere right next to it's limits. Aging, degrading under heat, X-ray can change characteristics of microchips, but is this a case?

2 famifan what is the point to replace DRAM chips with SRAM? Technically it is possible - you should latch row from LSI, latch columns from LSI and after that allow data access.

Quite interesting bug or "feature", so feel free to ask questions.

[famifan]

2 famifan what is the point to replace DRAM chips with SRAM? Technically it is possible - you should latch row from LSI, latch columns from LSI and after that allow data access.

originally i think that it was DRAM's problem. Good thing you find that SRAM causes the issues.   

[80sFREAK]

This is just one case and i need more statistics to be sure. I thought to heat-up original chip, while running test, but unfortunately they are under PCB.

[JohnnyBlaze]

Just say how much and I will send as soon as I can. So, it WASN'T the disk after all. Well, shit. I have two replacements on the way, if I see the same problem, then I know it's the adapter. In that case, you know anyone that needs another copy of these two games so I can get this fixed adapter shipped. You know, it SHOULD just be sent to me, as I pretty much paid $50 plus shipping which was quite a bit only to have a defective RAM adapter, but as long as I get one that's working, I don't give a shit how it has to come...

But I'm just throwing that out there. $165 for the lot and $120 shipping is quite an investment already, no? I would've assumed that I would've had 2 systems free of defect. I'm kinda pissed now about this. I'm not trying to overstep any bounds or make trouble but I do feel a little ticked that after all the money I spent to get these, I have to shell out more to get a working adapter sent to me when it was supposed to be working in the first place. Maybe I'm being sort of an asshole, but I leave it up to you guys to decide. I'm right, I'm right. I'm wrong. I'm wrong. I just want a working Famicom and Disk System where I can throw anything I purchase at it and I don't have to be afraid of it not working.

[80sFREAK]

I didn't take money for shipping. It was your choice of EMS, even i offered economy and split everything in three boxes without charging extra handling fees. Don't mess up.
I can not guarantee, that fault in the system, which i sent to you is exactly the same as i found in my adaptor.
But i can guarantee, that system, i examined yesterday with faster CHR RAM working just fine with pro wrestling.

You'd ask me "how did you tested unit before sale?" Simple - clean the slot, plug in, start up Zelda(it's 2 side), flip the disk, played little bit. No glitchy graphics - take photo, put in the box, list it.

I also would like to hear some other opinions about this case. FDS was sold AS IS - it's secondhand and old unit. FDS was tested with Zelda and does not show any glitches. FDS was not tested with pro-wrestling.

Personally i don't mind to send FREE replacement on my expenses. Not a big deal - 7USD economy, but this will be the last replacement. So, i would like to hear other voices.

[Frank_fjs]

Regarding the FDS - it is a highly temperamental piece of equipment, even when new they struggled to reliably read disks. They are very sensitive and I've never come across 2 systems that behave exactly the same.

JohnnyBlaze - I know how awful it feels to have a console that doesn't work as you would expect. It's something you have to come to peace with though, it's part of the game of retro collecting. These consoles are 25+ years old, it's amazing that they still work at all! Take a deep breath and look at the positives, you have a working disk system console, and barring some possible hiccups with the RAM adapter, it's working okay.

80sFREAK - I don't think you're necessarily obliged to send out a free RAM adapter, but given the low cost it might be something to consider, even if only for the sake of keeping another retro gamer smiling.

[fredJ]

I'm with 80sFreak on this.
AS IS units for low cost, don't expect warranty.

[80sFREAK]

Looks like all "advisors" disappeared from this thread I would like to hear more voices before make final decision.

[Frank_fjs]

I already gave my opinion, who else is more important than me?

[80sFREAK]

Yes, most objective. Thank you for that. The point is - replacement is not giving away one more unit, but exchanging broken/glitchy one with working.

[P]

That sounds plausible I think.

[80sFREAK]

Ok, guys, thank you all opinions, i appretiate that. Now i have to take action.

The lot was sold as secondhand on AS IS basis and is was clearly stated on description. Which means i don't have to do anything now.

BUT, as tech guy, i am curious if discovered glitch have the same nature as i found in one of mine adaptors. That's why i offered replacement. Again, REPLACEMENT, not giving away one more unit for free with free shipping.

So, if JohnnyBlaze want replacement, he have to send back glitchy RAM adaptor and when  i will receive it, i will send another old secondhand unit in similar cosmetic condition or either replace CHR RAM chip in his unit with faster one(if this cause the problem).

No more, no less.

Appealing to the cost of spent money on initial EMS shipping will shift my mind to "AS IS" position.

[JohnnyBlaze]

He also sells them REFURBISHED, which is what it means when it's "cleaned and tested". This man, after I paid $315 his way, including $125 for shipping, expects me to pay $40 more dollars to send him a broken piece of shit which I have no use for and even shot video proving that it wasn't working. For that, I can BUY another RAM adapter, which by the way would actually be GUARANTEED! Also, did he mention to anyone that he only accepts PayPal Personal Payments so if something DOES come up and the items don't work, you can't get a refund? And it isn't even HIS PayPal account? He didn't DARE bother to tell you THAT did he? Nope! He did NOT. I've had enough patience dealing with this guy and I've had it. Now, he wants to vilify me, these are the reason why I ASKED for a replacement. I can understand it if didn't work say a month or so down the line. Yes, I'd accept that. But, not working from the minute I take it out of the box?! That's where I draw the line. You also saw how he pretty much got defensive when I and a few others said that it was a problem with the RAM Cart. He swore up and down that it was my disks. Guess what? I got the replacement disks today and same issue.

You want to paint me as a selfish asshole and whatnot? Gloves are OFF. Now, the whole story is out there.

[80sFREAK]

1)paypal personal clearly stated on the sales thread
2)it's obvious, that is impossible to test a system with every existing title.
3)all items sold on AS IS basis, which also clearly stated
4)refund ususally does mean, that goods have to be returned to it's origin
5)expensive shipping was not my choice
6)even i sold FDS AS IS and he clearly understood it from beginning i offered replacement, which i don't have to

And no, i am not going to send one more RAM adaptor. FDS was sold AS IS, i tried to help, but it does not work.

As result, i am affraid i have to stop using paypal at all.

About personal payments - we are out of ebay and i assume, that all deals on this messageboard are private and have personal matter.

[Frank_fjs]

Why do you need to stop using PayPal? It's the most convenient form of payment for international buyers.