Why do some pirate carts play on a famicom but not on an NES?

[Phosphora]

 I was curious why some pirate Famicom carts don't play well on a Toaster NES, but play fine on a Famicom?

...But, when using a Game Doctor, they will play fine on a Toaster NES. Why does the Game Doctor make some pirate cart games work on the NES that otherwise work just fine on any Famicom?

Toaster NES + Famicom Adaptor = Problems
Famicom = No Problems
Toaster NES + Famicom Adaptor + Game Doctor = No Problems

[Phosphora]

How about titles?

Off the top of my head I have 2 different eprom Recca pirates on hand (that are probably identical in code) that only play without graphical glitches on a Toaster NES through my Game Doctor. I also have another Recca pirate that's a globtop that will play on a toaster NES without the game doctor.

[BonBon]

I have a few pirates that won't work on my av famicom but on a clone. Games are time diver avenger and Addams family.

[Phosphora]

I have a few pirates that won't work on my av famicom but on a clone. Games are time diver avenger and Addams family.

Thanks, you're not the only person to report such.

Have you tried the games on your AV Fami through a Game Doctor?

[BonBon]

No I don't own a game doctor and I have a bunch of pirate rewriting disks that won't play on my disk system that I think I need a game doctor to play them. Also time diver loads but the graphics are scrambled but Addams family won't even load.

[nerdynebraskan]

That's definitely weird. I was of the understanding that a Famicom and an NTSC NES (toaster or top loader) are practically identical internally. I've heard that the only real differences are 1) different pin configurations 2) expansion channels for enhanced audio on FC, but not on NES and 3) the lockout security chip in the NES, but not in the FC.

I wonder if the differences in pin configurations would have something to do with that. It's simple enough to use an adapter to plug licensed FC games into a 60-72 pin adapter and have it line up alright inside an NES. Maybe the pirates aren't built quite right, in such a way that the adapters don't work properly?

Famicom/Famiclone incompatibility seems a bit more obvious, and I think has been addressed by others with much more knowledge than me.

[Phosphora]

That's definitely weird. I was of the understanding that a Famicom and an NTSC NES (toaster or top loader) are practically identical internally. I've heard that the only real differences are 1) different pin configurations 2) expansion channels for enhanced audio on FC, but not on NES and 3) the lockout security chip in the NES, but not in the FC.

I wonder if the differences in pin configurations would have something to do with that. It's simple enough to use an adapter to plug licensed FC games into a 60-72 pin adapter and have it line up alright inside an NES. Maybe the pirates aren't built quite right, in such a way that the adapters don't work properly?

Famicom/Famiclone incompatibility seems a bit more obvious, and I think has been addressed by others with much more knowledge than me.

Yep it's strange.
Pirate cart through the adaptor into NES is glitchy, but the same pirate cart through a game doctor plugged into the same adaptor works fine. The only difference is the Game Doctor.

I own many adaptors and they are all glitchy with the problem pirate carts through the nes.

For the record, the Honey-Bee Family adaptor is the only one big enough to work with the game doctor on a Toaster.

[80sFREAK]

How about titles?

Off the top of my head I have 2 different eprom Recca pirates on hand (that are probably identical in code) that only play without graphical glitches on a Toaster NES through my Game Doctor. I also have another Recca pirate that's a globtop that will play on a toaster NES without the game doctor.

"some" and "probably" is not good description of the problem, if you want to get answer.
At moment i can say, it's related to a)mapper b)timings of pirated EPROM's and c)minor differences in NES/Famicom hardware such as PPU revision '373 latch and latch control circuit.

[famifan]

does graphical glitches presenting depend on the system? Be sure the problem is hiding inside of the system. You'd forgotten to upgrade some 74LS chips to 74HC(Т) inside of your system. Powerpak on NES suffers from the same things. http://forums.nesdev.com/viewtopic.php?t=8242

new eprom chips on pirates/or anywhere else can't bear with old fashioned 74LS
Post Merge: August 09, 2013, 06:14:19 am

At moment i can say, it's related to a)mapper b)timings of pirated EPROM's and c)minor differences in NES/Famicom hardware such as PPU revision '373 latch and latch control circuit.

fixed

[nerdynebraskan]

Jedi might be right; I may be over-thinking this. What kind of issues do you have trying to play these pirates in your toaster? Is it the blinking screen of death? That would be the lockout chip saying "nope."

Of course, most adapters to play on 72-pin NES consoles have some kind of lockout defeater. An adapter built from a Gyromite or other launch title would actually have a real Nintendo lockout chip on it. If you're able to play other FC games via adapter on your toaster, it's probably not a lockout chip issue.

[Phosphora]

does graphical glitches presenting depend on the system? Be sure the problem is hiding inside of the system. You'd forgotten to upgrade some 74LS chips to 74HC(Т) inside of your system. Powerpak on NES suffers from the same things. http://forums.nesdev.com/viewtopic.php?t=8242

new eprom chips on pirates/or anywhere else can't bear with old fashioned 74LS
Post Merge: August 09, 2013, 06:14:19 am

At moment i can say, it's related to a)mapper b)timings of pirated EPROM's and c)minor differences in NES/Famicom hardware such as PPU revision '373 latch and latch control circuit.

fixed

I bet you're correct. I wonder if a PowerPak will play fine on a 74LS console through a Game Doctor?